autobox banging and jerking

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just rememberd a couple more things.

while checking thing , iv come across oily sludge stuck to the inside of the radiator expansion tank :confused:, first thoughts were an atf cooler leak, but the atf levels fine and cant see any signs of water in the atf. also not sure how long the oils been in there, (dad cant remember if it was there when he bought it)

also where's this sodding re-fill bung for the auto box? iv seen pics of it but cant seem to locate it on the actual box.
 
one more thing i forgot

do the engine fault codes come up on the display?, if so is it on the main one by the speedo? ( the clock display in the center of the dash dosen't work)

cheers

jon
 
the sludge could be coolant leak blocker. . . . . just a thought
cheers for the thought, but its black and very oily. so i doubt its a sealant.

i am wondering whether it is emulsified atf, and that I'm not seeing water/coolant in the atf, as the coolant/water is sitting mostly in the bottom of the auto box.:confused2:
 
Jatco auto FL 1 oil is part no STC50531 for 1L from main dealers. It's red oil. Drain plug washer is TEB100040L.

Auto oil filler bung is here:
P9171138.jpg


The engine coolant also runs through a cooler on the auto, so this is where potentually there could be an exchange of fluids if somethings wrong.

td4 without fuel burning heater with auto:

td4coolingautonofbh.jpg


td4 with fuel burning heater with auto:

td4coolingautowithfbh.jpg


If aft and coolant is mixed in the auto, and run for a bit, then it's more than likely shagged. Some have tried to wash out the auto with new aft, but it didn't work. Shift into 1st and 2nd seems to show failure first when these autos are broken. Contact ashcroft transmissions (luton based) as they is the nuts when it comes to these auto's, if your looking for an independent.

Whats the engine oil like?
 
thanks Hippo for the superb pics and diagrams

being as the atf level is fine, im doubting theres a leak in the cooler, but i think ill drain off as much atf as i can so i can visually check for coolant/water.
ill also drain out the rad as im wondering if it may be sludged up with oil.

looks like im opening up a huge can of worms here, got a feeling this may turn out to be a scrapper. :(
 
Well at this stage it will not hurt to change the g/box oil ,however make sure you follow correct procedures as Flops says temp, also use a silicone injector cap + lenth of pipe to a funnel [to get it in the rubber bung] and make sure the motor is as level as you can [spirit level on both door sills is near as dam it] make sure you undo the correct fluid bolts [double check this with the Ashcroft web site]. . . . however my thoughts are still away from the auto box, let us know how you get on. . . . and best oh luck Earthling :)
 
Well at this stage it will not hurt to change the g/box oil ... and best oh luck Earthling :)

cheers for the advice, as soon as i get hold of the correct atf ill give it a good change.

i played about with the atf coolant lines earlier and cant see any signs of a leak in that cooler, however there might have been/still is? a leak on the engine oil cooler, (hose clips have been replaced with jubilee ones suggesting someones been fiddling around with it)

iv flushed out the rad and had the engine running for a while with no extra oil appearing in the coolant, so hope its a previously fixed problem.

iv yet to check if its further down the transmission, but i doubt it.
 
hi all

just a quick update to say its fixed!!

i did some testing with a multimeter on the gearbox plug and found a fault with the line pressure control solenoid.

got a new solenoid from ashcrofts along with the oil, and fitted it myself this afternoon.

only given it a short run on site, but gear changes are perfect now :)

will have to change the fluid again in a day or so, as i only got 4.5 ltrs out, but that's not a huge rush.

cheers for all the help and advice, if anyone needs more info let me know

jon
 
Well done. Stick the info you have on the forum. Also any photo's you've taken. It all helps. Coz I might need it one day...
 
sorry folks no pics, i left the camera at home :doh:

ill give as detailed a walk through as i can, hopefully it will be understandable, and help others.

right, from the start:

fault occurred at 100,000 miles, after a hard acceleration, gear changes suddenly became very harsh and felt like a rear end shunt.
Using the steptronic, and backing off the throttle before changing gear was better but still rough.

first thing to check is the Automatic Transmission Fluid (atf) level and condition, there's a few guides on here on how to do this but basically its as follows:


  1. park on level ground with good access underneath
  2. remove sump guard from under engine bay
  3. locate level plug on underside of auto box, 5 mm allen bolt near to gear selector rod.
  4. locate fill point, top of box, nearest the radiator, small rubber bung in it.
  5. run engine, and move though gears a few times
  6. continue to run engine until atf is at 35-45 degrees, best checked with a thermometer against the ally casing, aim for 35 degrees, as fluid will be slightly hotter.
  7. once up to temp, leave engine running and in park
  8. remove level plug
  9. catch atf in suitable container, small amount (egg cup full) should come out.
  10. wait for atf flow to become a small consistent dribble.
  11. replace level plug

if lots of atf comes out, the box has been overfilled, or its got too hot, just be patient and double check everything

if there's no consistent dribble, you need to pour in new atf until it flows out the level hole and becomes a consistent dribble.

once your sure the level is correct, go for a test drive.
over or underfilled boxes can give all sorts of problems, and this may have fixed them (fingers crossed)

at this point its also best to check the atf condition, i catch some of it in a white cup as its easier to see the colour and/or any foreign particles

brand new atf is cherry red but once its been used a little it will be browny, that's ok.

dark brown, coffee coloured and smelling burnt , is definitely not ok, the atf will be long past its usable life and requires a change.

if there's foreign particles in the sample something has definitely gone wrong inside the box.

N.b do not mistake your atf sample for black coffee, it is not drinkable...:p


as far as im aware old burnt atf wont make the auto box drive perfectly, but shouldn't give the symptoms i described, so further investigation is required. :(


Now, to properly diagnose any faults, it is recommended to have either LR or and independent come and plug a magical box into the car, and this will miraculously tell them exactly whats wrong, and that you need a new or a reconditioned gearbox.

if your want to try yourself there's a handy pdf file here http://muddyoval.com/articles/fltech/transmission/JF506E Supplement Part 1.pdf
with a very handy data sheet for the jatco gearbox.

using the plug diagram and data sheet for the 2004 freelander you can find the specs for each of the control solenoids as well as the sensors.

finding and getting to the actual plug in the car however can be a bit more tricky, but its not too hard.

look at the front of the autobox, between the box and the radiator, and you'll see 2 round plug connectors. ones an 18 pin plug ( which we want) the other? i suspect is the steptronic controls but i didn't need to find out.

once you've got to the plug, un-clip it from its mount and twist anti-clockwise to disconnect it.

N.b engine must be off for this procedure

find which end goes into the autobox, and begin testing . . .

if everything tests out within spec, your problem is beyond help in this thread (although there is a pressure line the can crack on earlier box's and may be visible and repairable inside).

hopefully? the testing has pointed to a solenoid or sensor that isn't within spec. this is probably the part that requires replacing ( control pressure solenoid in my case)

now to repair the fault:

parts/tools needed ( that i can remember):


  • somewhere level to work with access underneath
  • spanners
  • socket set
  • replacement part
  • oil resistant gasket compound ( i used havoline blue, non setting)
  • 10ltrs new atf ( LR N402)
  • funnel, with hose
  • grips/pliers
  • buckets
  • antifreeze
  • this pdf http://www.transtec.com/tech_insert/94231.pdf

now it time to play :)


  1. park up level, remove sump guard
  2. run engine until atf is hot
  3. shut off engine
  4. remove drain bolt, (24mm spanner) on underside of box near level plug
  5. catch atf, approx 3.5 ltrs
  6. start engine and move though gears ( 30 sec max running)
  7. catch another 0.5 ltrs of atf
  8. check there's not bits in th atf or on the magnetic plug
  9. replace drain plug
  10. disconnect battery and remove
  11. remove battery box
  12. remove egr and flexi hose attached
  13. remove large hose from inter-cooler (in-front of rad)
  14. move anything else to get better access to the front pan of the auto box
  15. disconnect both atf cooler pipes going into the top drivers side of the auto box (19mm spanner required)
  16. get under vehicle and disconnect both small hoses coming from the atf cooler, don't get wet!
  17. unbolt and remove atf cooler from engine bay
  18. ensure you have good access to the front pan of the auto box
  19. unbolt the pan, (approx 20 bolts 10 mm socket required)
  20. carefully prise off the pan to expose the valves.
  21. view the diagram in the pdf to locate the faulty part on the actual box.
  22. unbolt faulty part ( other bits may need ot come off first i.e the plug connector, other solenoids)
  23. remove faulty part
  24. test resistance of faulty part, check against original readings and new item.
  25. fit replacement part
  26. ensure all other bits are securely re-positioned
  27. clean edge of box and pan
  28. lightly coat edge of pan with sealant/gasket compound
  29. refit pan, bolt up squarely and snugly
  30. refit atf cooler and atf lines
  31. refill box with atf fluid ( just under amount removed)
  32. check for leaks
  33. replace all other removed parts, except sump gaurd
  34. top up coolant
  35. test run engine, take thought gears slowly and carefully.
  36. check for any leaks
  37. bring atf up to 35 degrees and repeat atf level check.
  38. check for any leaks.
once happy there are no leaks and that the atf is at the correct level, take for a carefull test drive.

hopefully thats solved the problem, however being as the atf is warm, the sump gaurd is off, and your proberly coverd in oil, you might as well drain the atf aout again and refill with fresh.
this will give you roughlty a 3/4 atf change.

if all the above works and the car now drives fine, give yourself a pat on the back, you've just saved yourself the cost of a recon unit (approx £900 + labour) :)

total cost for mine was about £150 for atf, antifreeze and the solenoid (£44 from ashcrofts)
total time to change the part was about 6 hours

hope this is of help to someone, thanks again to everyone for the help earlier with diagnosing the fault. and again sorry there's no pics.
 
Earthling b-basset. . . . . . . . we are not worthy ,you must be a rockit engineer ,I'm well impressed a most comprehensive auto box write up yet ,go top of the class. . . . . . .can this be made a sticky in the common faults bit as its first rate ,shame no pics . . . . .:):):):):):)
 
so if any of the solenoids go open circuit [control pressure solenoid ,in your case] they will need replacement . . . . .are all the solenoids about the same ohm value ? and are they all get at able ?. . . . . .can you fix the warp speed modulator in ma rockit ,also my messerator is playing up in the outside loo :D
 
Ming.. thanks for the appreciation,

i spent 4 years writing up jobs, bolt by bolt, for my apprenticeship so it comes as second nature to me now.
ill try to grab some pics next time I'm at my fathers, but if any one's got pics of the relevant area's, and don't mind sharing, ill re-edit my 'how to' to include them.

the solenoids can either go open circuit, short circuit, or a partial short. id expect the same from the sensors too. basically anything that doesn't measure in the spec given in the pdf will need replacing.
there's a few solenoids with the same resistances but a couple are different, so you would need to compare them against the pdf.

all 9 solenoids are located on the front of the box and can be accessed reasonably easily,its just a bit tight between the box and the radiator. Ashcroft's only sell 4 out of the 9 solenoids, so some searching for a dealer may be needed for the others

I'm not sure where the sensors are located, they probably require a further strip down though, (ashcroft's sell them so should know how to get to them)

N.b. each car manufacturer seems to label the solenoids slightly differently, so it can be a bit confusing when using data sheets from different cars.


warp speed modulator? i suggest a little bit of anti-friction gel on the proton flow regulator. or failing that, a big hammer!

if its a small domestic macerator your on about, it most likely blocked/jammed by something that shouldn't have been flushed. Time to get the rubber gloves out and pull it apart.
 
just found this pdf, for the entire auto box. http://www.automaticchoice.com/Catalogue/jf506e.pdf


part 101 is the pan that needs to be removed to get at the valve block (part 750)
the solenoids are parts 700 to 708

speed sensors (710-11-12) are on the back of the box, so may be easy to replace.

if you look further down to the part list, you can see there are a few different part numbers for the solenoids and the sensors depending on vehicle manufacturer. i don't know if there's actually any physical difference between them, but i suspect there must be an electrical/behavioural difference.

also just found a jatco 5 speed rebuild procedure book on amazon.com, might be usefull for more indepth studying
 
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did he fix the problem cos i got the same thing n ive changed rear dif bush and its still there. gonna change ngine mount tomorrow, if it aint that im screwed!!!
 
sorry iv not responded sooner, i dont come on here anymore since the car has been working fine.

looks like some of my links no longer work, but if you go into the muddy oval website, freelander tech section, there is a document for testing the jactco box.
just download the troubleshooting guide, its got all the specs and some diagrams

you need to disconnect the 18 pin connector, and to test the resistance across the solenoids + sensors, (for instance across pins 1+2, turbine speed sensor, 513 -627 ohms)

check each solenoid and each sensor, that should show up any electrical faults.

hopefully the link below will work to get the pdf.

if your really desperate for more help from me, best send a pm, as im very unlikely to come here again ( having too much fun playing with my proper 4x4)

http://www.muddyoval.com/1articles/fltech/transmission/JF506E Supplement Part 1.pdf

a basic how to change any faulty part is in this thread, if you can use a multimeter + undo nuts and bolts, you should be able to do this job. its not terribly complicated, just arkward .

this link shold get you to a full diagarmm of all parts.

http://www.automaticchoice.com/Catalogue/jf506e.pdf
 
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