Disco 2 Auto Disco II cranks but will not start 3 Amigo's + M&S flashing!

Didn't say it makes sense but at the moment I am exploring everything.

And i'm trying to explain you what's what to not explore in vain

I do appreciate your advise and experience. I think I am just getting a little 'punch drunk' with this vehicle. I have started to work through the manual taking each sensor in turn. This problem exhibited before the ECU failure and I think all this investigation is exacerbating that 'little' problem. It starts and runs it's just this delay which is exasperating.

Well things have changed that 120 sec delay is now 150 sec delay!

I contacted the vendor, a breakers yard in Telford - 65miles from me - and he claimed to know about this problem that requires an "Autologic" device to reprogram the throttle. Does anybody know about this and is there such equipment near me in Warwick? Either that or is there a new, unused original NNN500030 ECU out there that would solve my problem?

Neptune19522 said:

...."... he claimed to know about this problem that requires an Autologic device to reprogram the throttle....

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IMO what that man claims is utter b0ll0x , no such programming feature for a Td5, Autologic is the successor of Testbook T4 and there is no such program as "thorttle learn" in the LR dedicated diagnostic tools for a Td5, that's something doable for most of petrol engines which have electronic throttle body not a simple "potentiometer". Autologic can't do more than nanocom for a Td5 other than remapping directly, i have personal experience with Autologic as a friend of mine has it.

Neptune19522 said:

Either that or is there a new, unused original NNN500030 ECU out there that would solve my problem?

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No need of unused ECU which is extremely expensive, you need one removed from a vehicle which ran well from a serious seller who accepts it back with refund if it doesnt work for you

Thanks Fery,
I have to say I did think it was pure BS but with no background in software issues I was not able to refute his statement; now I can!

It has been suggested to me that remapping my ECU may be the answer regarding this problem I have. Do you think this would dispose of this delay problem without replacing all the sensors?

Yes, a remap would definitely prove if the problem comes from the ECU or not and it could simply fix things but that would cost you around 250 quid and if the delay will still be there then might be wasted money... the best would be to find a compatible Eu3 ECU for test to rule it out... i'd not eat my brain without this confirmation cos the ECU is very suspect.

Here's one with return policy https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/325214277691?hash=item4bb848103b:g:POsAAOSwnylil5IE#rpdCntId ... aprox the price of a remap but if it does the same you can send it back and you know to dig further for some other issue ... did you measure that mV on F10?

I am thinking of leaving the vendor alone for a couple of days, while he thinks I am looking for alternative reprogrammers, and then offer to drive to him - 65 miles - and replace the ECU there and then with other NNN's that he claims to have. If the problem disappears great if not I have had a pleasant drive out... Would I need to reprogram the, replacement - if they exist, with the injector codes. to prove no delay on starting?

Looked at that E-bay item and almost tempted to purchase it! My 1969 my 109 rebuild on a 110 chassis might get a TD5 instead of a Gem 300 but only if I can sort out this problem! Therefore a 'spare' ECU would not be wasted.

Sounds like a plan ... good luck

No need to code the injectors for test, just to make it learn the security code... the injector codes would affect the engine's behaviour above 3000 rpm only

Fitted a 'new' ECU and it works! There is a delay on < 8 sec which I think is acceptable. Air Suspension seems to have lost its way but time with Nanocom and a ruler sorted that. Short drive this morning and no problems other than something lose somewhere, but that's mechanical and sortable!

I hope this really is the end of this saga other than persuading the breakers yard to refund me the fee for the "Perfectly good ECU" (sic) but that is for me and possibly the courts to sort out! Big thank you to all, particularly Fery and PopPops, who have been kind enough to put up with my dyslexic approach when advising me how to sort this software problem out and give me faith in my vehicle again. Thank you all.

Regards
Ken
Discovery 2, Series 3 88" and Series 2A 109"/110" Defended owner

Neptune19522 said:

Fitted a 'new' ECU and it works! There is a delay on < 8 sec which I think is acceptable. Air Suspension seems to have lost its way but time with Nanocom and a ruler sorted that. Short drive this morning and no problems other than something lose somewhere, but that's mechanical and sortable!

I hope this really is the end of this saga other than persuading the breakers yard to refund me the fee for the "Perfectly good ECU" (sic) but that is for me and possibly the courts to sort out! Big thank you to all, particularly Fery and PopPops, who have been kind enough to put up with my dyslexic approach when advising me how to sort this software problem out and give me faith in my vehicle again. Thank you all.

Regards
Ken
Discovery 2, Series 3 88" and Series 2A 109"/110" Defended owner

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Well done, fingers crossed all goes well for you now.

Neptune19522 said:

Fitted a 'new' ECU and it works! There is a delay on < 8 sec which I think is acceptable. Air Suspension seems to have lost its way but time with Nanocom and a ruler sorted that. Short drive this morning and no problems other than something lose somewhere, but that's mechanical and sortable!

I hope this really is the end of this saga other than persuading the breakers yard to refund me the fee for the "Perfectly good ECU" (sic) but that is for me and possibly the courts to sort out! Big thank you to all, particularly Fery and PopPops, who have been kind enough to put up with my dyslexic approach when advising me how to sort this software problem out and give me faith in my vehicle again. Thank you all.

Regards
Ken
Discovery 2, Series 3 88" and Series 2A 109"/110" Defended owner

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Glad you have finally made progress!

I'm glad that your saga has ended, as about

Neptune19522 said:

There is a delay on < 8 sec which I think is acceptable

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remember that i told you to not touch the throttle for the first 10 seconds after start up so there will be no delay at all

sierrafery said:

I'm glad that your saga has ended, as about
remember that i told you to not touch the throttle for the first 10 seconds after start up so there will be no delay at all

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Is this the same as waiting for all the lights to go out before moving off? As I tend to do that in any modern car.

Stanleysteamer said:

Is this the same as waiting for all the lights to go out before moving off? As I tend to do that in any modern car.

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First of all you have to wait for the lights to go out before you crank it as the systems to terminate the self tests otherwise the ECU's will not respond well untill it's passed then after the engine was started wait at least 10 seconds to idle for the sake of the turbo, (better15 secs according to LR recommendation):

ENGINE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM - TD5; DESCRIPTION AND OPERATION 18-1-33 said:

The engine should be allowed to idle for 15 seconds following engine start up and before the engine is switched off
to protect the turbocharger by maintaining oil supply to the turbine bearings.

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sierrafery said:

First of all you have to wait for the lights to go out before you crank it as the systems to terminate the self tests otherwise the ECU's will not respond well untill it's passed then after the engine was started wait at least 10 seconds to idle for the sake of the turbo, (better15 secs according to LR recommendation):

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Silly me, yes of course i meant "before starting/cranking".
I too get a slight delay before moving off once the engine is running and it does this a lot, not just on first start up but all day long, not enough to be a real problem usually, but it can be frustrating. everything else works fine as far as I can tell, no lights on the dash but I have yet to get out my Foxwell to see if it tells me anything. I am awaiting a new ATF temp sender unit before digging any deeper into this.
and if I need help it would only be fair to start a new thread with it.
but your help and observations are always appreciated.

I do remember that I was informed not to touch the throttle while cranking or indeed immediately after and apart from initiating a purge as directed by my former colleague - the TD5, (electrical), engineer - I have not touched the throttle within that magical setting up period. I suppose that would align with that pause when traffic lights go from red to red and amber before moving off on green; nice simile! It has always been my custom to let the glow plug W/L go out before starting at any time and then the oil W/L does take a few seconds to extinguish, (this caused me to check the oil level frequently until I got used to it), which may just be the ECU claiming its setting up time; I do not know if this a fact or just a supposition on my part but it is convenient way of giving the ECU some set up time! Confusingly when I start my 1978 Series III, with a GEM200 engine, I am almost moving off before I let go of the ignition key when starting! However as Stanleysteamer says, "modern engines need handling differently". However all that said I now have < 10 sec delay, OK 15 sec may be better and if circumstances allow I would do just that, rather than the 120 or 150 second delay the 'dubious' ECU was exhibiting.

This whole thread started off with a 'crank but not starting' question and it would appear that that is the ultimate delay; defiantly more than 150 seconds! It is a little concerning that engine ECU's appear to be somewhat unreliable as I have heard of other instances of cranking but not starting. Clearly far too late for LR / Lucas to address this situation but still a concern particularly as we only have a diminishing number of 'good' ECU's to keep our D2's on the road!

...and then there is the need to let the engine tick over for at least 30 seconds after a high speed or hard climb to allow the oil to cool the turbo bearings rather than just cook when you turn the engine off.
Some friends of ours had to chase a train once, as someone just missed it, they were going full bore down motorways etc until they finally caught it down the line. Must have switched the engine off too quickly afterwards as it completely cooked the turbo bearings. a Mitsubishi if I remember rightly.