Another 3 Amigos Question

Good Morning One and All,

I have browsed and searched this forum and other Land Rover Forums before posting here before anybody asks.

The other day before my 98 1.8 Freelander1 was going back to the MOT station for its retest the 3 Amigos suddenly decided to show there ugly faces..good timing or what.

I've had no intermittent issues or warnings before and no problems and all of a sudden they they are. All 3 come straight on at ignition and are permanently on.

1. I have checked the Brake Pedal Switch (2 terminal) type and that is installed properly and works properly. I took it out of the bracket and tried it and my brake lights come on and off as they should.
2. I took off the gear knob and checked the HDC switch and the microswitch. Everything is connected with no damaged wires and the switch works correctly as does the collar.
3. I disconnected the RH front Sensor and measured it at the inline and it was about 930 ohms. I spun the wheel and i got an AC voltage generated at various speeds.
4. I disconnected the LH front Sensor and measured it at the inline and it was about 920 ohms. I spun the wheel and i got an AC voltage generated at various speeds.
5. I disconnected the RH rear Sensor and measured it at the inline and it was about 920 ohms. I spun the wheel and i got an AC voltage generated at various speeds.
6. I disconnected the LH rear Sensor and measured it at the inline and it was about 930 ohms. I spun the wheel and i got an AC voltage generated at various speeds.
7. Neither of the fuses had blown.
8. I have checked earths for the Module-ABS and all are clean and secure.
9. I have checked all of the rings on all the hubs and all are clean, intact and undamaged and the hubs rotate freely.
10. I disconnected the battery and left it a while before reconnecting and this made no difference.

I have asked about the diagnostic reading at a local 4x4 garage and they quoted me £70. I am fortunate that my manager at work is a diagnostics genius and might be able to knock something up that will work to read the codes.

Any ideas would be much appreciated in the meantime, apart from the usual 'burn the gaylander and buy a proper 4x4 blah blah'. Talk about blatant jealousy

Well , firstly I sympathise with you as the fault can be a time consuming one to find.
You certainly have done all the initial checks that I have done in the past and indeed all that you can do without having the car checked on a diagnostic system.
I think that that is your next step although £ 70 is a disgraceful sum of money to be charged for reading the codes.
I have had the problem ongoing for more than a couple of months now and when all seems to be repaired up they pop again.
I recently changed out the Wabco ABS pump after the code reader condemned the pump valves as sticking and shorting to ground.
All was well until last week when ...... well I decided that there were only two sets of components left , the ecu and all sensors .
I got a used ECU yesterday and am awaiting new sensors which will be fitted hopefully this weekend. If that doesn't eliminate the problem I'm seriously considering making up and secreting a small circuit board with individual timers for the three bulbs and forgeting about the three functions.
I'm sorry I cant offer any other advice other than above but would suggest you ask around for other quotes for the code reader service .
Good luck and keep us informed as I will too.

Thanks for the feedback Dan.

It's annoying as i had fixed all of the issues from the failed MOT and was booked in for a retest then the day before they raise there ugly heads for the first time.

The garage that quoted me nearly £70 is the only one i have found nearby that has the Testbook tester. All of the other garages have OBD2 which is no good.

I'm hoping my genius boss comes up with something that can interrogate the ABS module through the diagnostic connector. He creates / writes / develops all of our diagnostic software here and has done it for years with the likes of Ford / TVR / Rover etc. If anyone can he can.

I'll do some more basic electrical tests and investigating at the weekend..if the weather holds.

I shall keep you informed of progress to. All of the best

Well , not the ecu problem still persists after I replaced it.........
New sensors didn't arrive so not changed but that's the next move .
Ho hum.

My boss wrote something which i plugged in to the OBD with one of our EEpod box of tricks. We have body and powertrain connectors on OBD so i tried both.

I got some readings and an error message, i need to get my boss to translate all of the hex and see if the error message was EEpod related or my ABS module.

Do you get the 3 warning lights as soon as you get to ignition position before starting? Does your pump prime at all because i'm not getting anything?

I haven't checked mine yet but have you checked the ABS pump relay under the steering column? Perhaps we are looking at something really obvious and simple...and cheap wishfull thinking i know...

Upon start up the brace of lights illuminate as they should and then the ABS and TC lamps stay on after the others go out.
Then it goes one of two ways , when you drive off and reach the 5 to 8 mph pick up speed the amber HDC lamp comes on to join it's two mates or alternativly the ABS and TC lamps go out and all is well.
If it is the latter I've noticed sometimes if you stop and engage reverse the three come on immediatly .
There is no repeatable sequence of failure .
I do occassionally but not every time , hear what sounds like the abs pump operate momenteraly . This sounds more like a metal flap closing and I often wondered if it was something to do with the AC .
I have to say that I'm getting way past fed up with this problem .
It's nudging 90K miles now and every other week something is needing replaced which is becomming very time consuming .
It's my wifes car and I want it 100% .
I'll replace the sensors and then if that fails after nearly 10 years ownership it's in the classifieds...............

Lately ours has been becoming a bit more frequent with issues but she does have 151,000 on the clock so we're putting a lot down to general wear and tear, aging and mileage.

My other half says that i have to fix it as she misses going out in here .

I wouldn't mind but the 3 amigos couldn't have appeared at the worst time, 2 days before my MOT retest. They've never appeared before or had any issues before and there they are just then.

I don't even get the sound of a pump priming or anything, i did notice the other day that when i repeatedly jump on the brake pedal the 'TC' warning light flickers on and off.

If putting it in gear makes a difference have you checked out the hdc switch and wiring?

i've driven around in forward and reverse and it makes no difference on mine, my lights stay permananently on from ignition on to ignition off.

I checked my BPS again as a double check and the brake lights come on and off as and when they should do.

I might check while my undertray is off the 1st and reverse gear connectors on my gearbox.

I have quite a bit of oil on the RHS of my engine (looking into the engine) and give them a clean and make sure they are doing what they should be and are not contaminated.

My feeling is. Get it plugged in! Even if it turns out to be something cheap and simple, it's going to be cheaper than replacing bits at random!
My local Land Rover dealer is cheaper than that!!!! £55 to £60!?!? If you're looking at going thru the approach mentioned it'll cost a fortune!

You need to get someone to plug something in that can see the abs computer. Thats where the fault code will be, if there is one. Testbook (also called T4) by LR will do it. So will hawkeye. Other systems are about but I don't know what they can do.

I found this while looking throug things. It's a paperclip test on the Discovery which apparently share the same ABS module, i think it's the WABCO one.

I know the paperclip method works because i used it on my 1998 Vauxhall Omega which again was pre-obd2.

I'm going to have a go at the weekend as another little method to try and find anything. To be honest i'm looking at if the finances are available next month getting on the T4 at a landrover garage nearby.

Land Rover Owner • View topic - ABS diagnostics

That's interesting about the paper clip test and like you I've done it several times successfully on an Omega too.
Didn't have to remove the relay though.
I'm taking it up to a friends garage this evening to hook it up to his diagnostic code reader again to see if there are any fault codes stored in the replacement ECU I've fitted.
It did show the FNS sensor V reading lower than the other three when last tested but the system went normal after I replaced the Wabco abs pump ( which was logged with several faults )so it was assumed at the time that the sensor was not at fault .

how did you get on with the plugging in of your car and the diagnostics? did you get some good results?

Not good...........
Just back after checking it and the code reader listed a number of faults on the ABS pump shuttle valves .
Both rear right and left were showing faults .These were listed as short to ground and short to supply .I cleared the fault codes but was left with Pump failure 1, monitor line ,pump failure 3 ,pump sticking and shuttle valve switch sticking which cannot be erased.
Pump does operate when activation test is selected so ABS relay is operational.
This is a bitter disappointment as I only recently replaced the same pump as the initial fault was again on shuttle switches but then on the front.
It wasn't an enjoyable job.......
My choices are stark as second hand ones are all 12 old years and more and new ones are prohibitivly expensive .
I have found a company that recon them and they state that the most common fault is on the shuttle valves so I'll call them tomorrow and get more info .
Wabco ABS Pumps & modules
We looked for the old original pump up in the garage this evening and couldn't find it so that will only add to my woes if I go down the recon route.
I'm seriously considering putting a small PCB with three seperate timers connected to the three lamps with independant extinguish times to simulate the lights going off .

i'm sorry to hear that Dan. Like you said second hand ones are 12 years old and unless they've been stripped and rebuilt there are no guarantees they'll work.

I'm not sure how correct it is but when i've been trying to find details on this system it comes back as being used on a Discovery2 aswell, not just the ecu but the valve block.

I'm not looking forward to digging around on mine, i don't even get the ABS pump kicking in or anything. I'm going to investigate to then look at getting her on the diagnostics.

Good luck with it all.

I found this last night ,
ABS TC HDC LANDROVER DISCOVERY II WABCO - YouTube

Problem is that it's not very easy to understand.