P38A 2.5 DSE smokes too much

Hello everyone,
this is my first post here.
In September I bought my first Land (Range) Rover, a lovely 1998 P38 DSE (179.000 Kms) with manual transmission.
I knew more or less what I was getting into (many troubles) but all in all the car has performed well so far.
In the meantime I fixed a lot of things and recently had a major service done by a specialist.
Long story short, now I have to resolve an anomaly: the engine runs well, starts without problems when hot or cold, performance is good (I must say it's not slow at all), consumption seems correct to me but....
Smokes too much! During accelerations I can see gray or black smoke from the mirror (depending on how much I press on the gas).
Occasionally I also have an unstable idling problem while driving: it needs a little hit of the accelerator to recover
All filters are new, MAP sensor is new, injector #4 is new and there are no errors reported by the ECU, the turbo hoses look neat. I think it's an over fuelling or timing issue, but I can be wrong of course.
These are datas from Nanocom at idle (750 rpm @94C°)





In some old threads on this very useful forum I've read that there is a practical way to set up the FIP but I couldn't find it.
Any suggestion will be greatly appreciated!

Welcome.

I have no idea, But the guys will probably talk you through "modulation"

@Datatek 1 for you.

J

If your happy with it as is leave it well alone , not broke dont fix it ,,, but it might have a tuning box ,cause its manual or chipped,,

Thanks

Any external tuning box. Is there any way to know if the ECU is chipped?

The modulation is a little high but not to bad that is altered by loosening the pump bolts and tapping the pump in towards the block till it reads 50, it will only be a fraction

RobertZ said:

Hello everyone,
this is my first post here.
In September I bought my first Land (Range) Rover, a lovely 1998 P38 DSE (179.000 Kms) with manual transmission.
I knew more or less what I was getting into (many troubles) but all in all the car has performed well so far.
In the meantime I fixed a lot of things and recently had a major service done by a specialist.
Long story short, now I have to resolve an anomaly: the engine runs well, starts without problems when hot or cold, performance is good (I must say it's not slow at all), consumption seems correct to me but....
Smokes too much! During accelerations I can see gray or black smoke from the mirror (depending on how much I press on the gas).
Occasionally I also have an unstable idling problem while driving: it needs a little hit of the accelerator to recover
All filters are new, MAP sensor is new, injector #4 is new and there are no errors reported by the ECU, the turbo hoses look neat. I think it's an over fuelling or timing issue, but I can be wrong of course.
These are datas from Nanocom at idle (750 rpm @94C°)

In some old threads on this very useful forum I've read that there is a practical way to set up the FIP but I couldn't find it.
Any suggestion will be greatly appreciated!

Click to expand...

The modulation is way off, PM me with an email address and I will give you a simple way of getting it right.
No MAF on yours and possibly it has been remapped so a bit of smoke if you boot it might be expected, I assume it's not using oil?

+ 1^^^ Contact Datatek. His method is so easy seeing as you have the proper diagnostics. Modulation should be 50% plus or minus 5%. Got mine to 52% doing it Keiths way.

Welcome to the Looney Zone by the way

Thanks guys, I will immediately send a PM to @Datatek
The engine is not using oil and all seems fine. And yes, it is the version without MAF.
Honestly I don't know if it was remapped (any history came with the car) and I don't know if there is a way to check.
But I've read many times that 2.5D are sooo slow and mine (for a 2.5 tons truck) doesn't seems at all.
Have not checked max speed because, except for limits, going too fast with this giant brick scares me a little. But the acceleration is brilliant.

RobertZ said:

Thanks guys, I will immediately send a PM to @Datatek
The engine is not using oil and all seems fine. And yes, it is the version without MAF.
Honestly I don't know if it was remapped (any history came with the car) and I don't know if there is a way to check.
But I've read many times that 2.5D are sooo slow and mine (for a 2.5 tons truck) doesn't seems at all.
Have not checked max speed because, except for limits, going too fast with this giant brick scares me a little. But the acceleration is brilliant.

Click to expand...

They are not slow compared with my previous 4 x 4's. If there is no power box fitted, you would have to pull the EDC out to see if there is any sign of a piggy back chip of labels suggesting a remap.

RobertZ said:

Hello everyone,
this is my first post here.
In September I bought my first Land (Range) Rover, a lovely 1998 P38 DSE (179.000 Kms) with manual transmission.
I knew more or less what I was getting into (many troubles) but all in all the car has performed well so far.
In the meantime I fixed a lot of things and recently had a major service done by a specialist.
Long story short, now I have to resolve an anomaly: the engine runs well, starts without problems when hot or cold, performance is good (I must say it's not slow at all), consumption seems correct to me but....
Smokes too much! During accelerations I can see gray or black smoke from the mirror (depending on how much I press on the gas).
Occasionally I also have an unstable idling problem while driving: it needs a little hit of the accelerator to recover
All filters are new, MAP sensor is new, injector #4 is new and there are no errors reported by the ECU, the turbo hoses look neat. I think it's an over fuelling or timing issue, but I can be wrong of course.
These are datas from Nanocom at idle (750 rpm @94C°)

In some old threads on this very useful forum I've read that there is a practical way to set up the FIP but I couldn't find it.
Any suggestion will be greatly appreciated!

Click to expand...

80% modulation is about right for that mileage. Not ideal but not a biggie. If it has a powerbox then it will smoke as it'll be overfuelling in order to get the power. Black smoke usually loose turbo-hose, although flushing out the intercooler and a good service can do wonders. There's a wire-mesh filter in the top of the rocker-cover for the breather system which will be gunked up at that mileage.

Is it losing any coolant at all? That might be the sign of a cracked head which can smoke a little.

Grrrrrr said:

80% modulation is about right for that mileage. Not ideal but not a biggie. If it has a powerbox then it will smoke as it'll be overfuelling in order to get the power. Black smoke usually loose turbo-hose, although flushing out the intercooler and a good service can do wonders. There's a wire-mesh filter in the top of the rocker-cover for the breather system which will be gunked up at that mileage.

Is it losing any coolant at all? That might be the sign of a cracked head which can smoke a little.

Click to expand...

80% modulation is likely to give hot start problems so it should be corrected.

Datatek said:

80% modulation is likely to give hot start problems so it should be corrected.

Click to expand...

Maybe. I found using the 12 thou shim when setting the crank-bolt helped more than anything else.

Elliotts is on about 80ish modulation and takes a reasonable cranking when hot. My own is on 50ish and starts spot on when hot.

Mine starts fine hot or cold, makes quite a nice noise too.

Grrrrrr said:

If it has a powerbox then it will smoke as it'll be overfuelling in order to get the power. Black smoke usually loose turbo-hose, although flushing out the intercooler and a good service can do wonders. There's a wire-mesh filter in the top of the rocker-cover for the breather system which will be gunked up at that mileage.

Is it losing any coolant at all? That might be the sign of a cracked head which can smoke a little.

Click to expand...

Hi, no external powerbox. Don't know if the Ecu is chipped or mapped, should take it out and check. It starts fine both cold and hot. Didn't flush the intercooler but I've cleaned the filter of the rocker cover.
No cooling leaks at all.
The intercooler hoses have been checked during the service (new filters, fluids all around, new 4th injector, return pipes etc).
But she smokes and the smoke certainly looks like that of unburned fuel (if I floor the accelerator pedal response is great but I leave a nice black cloud behind for the joy of those who follow me )

RobertZ said:

Hi, no external powerbox. Don't know if the Ecu is chipped or mapped, should take it out and check. It starts fine both cold and hot. Didn't flush the intercooler but I've cleaned the filter of the rocker cover.
No cooling leaks at all.
The intercooler hoses have been checked during the service (new filters, fluids all around, new 4th injector, return pipes etc).
But she smokes and the smoke certainly looks like that of unburned fuel (if I floor the accelerator pedal response is great but I leave a nice black cloud behind for the joy of those who follow me )

Click to expand...

At full chat it'll smoke black of grey. Mine chuffs a grey cloud at full chat also. As long as it doesn't resemble a steam train

Mark Piercy said:

At full chat it'll smoke black of grey. Mine chuffs a grey cloud at full chat also.

Click to expand...

At full throttle and under load (uphill) it smokes black. At medium smokes grey. Greta would be happy to follow me to the future
A small steam train actually.
Maybe I should also have the remaining injectors checked soon.

The modulation is a good place to start.

RobertZ said:

Hi, no external powerbox. Don't know if the Ecu is chipped or mapped, should take it out and check. It starts fine both cold and hot. Didn't flush the intercooler but I've cleaned the filter of the rocker cover.
No cooling leaks at all.
The intercooler hoses have been checked during the service (new filters, fluids all around, new 4th injector, return pipes etc).
But she smokes and the smoke certainly looks like that of unburned fuel (if I floor the accelerator pedal response is great but I leave a nice black cloud behind for the joy of those who follow me )

Click to expand...

Foot to the floor it will smoke a bit. If they've chipped it they may have gone a little further on the map so you get a little more smoke (but more power). Compression low would give more smoke - carbon build up on valves, that sort of thing. At the end of the day a high-roller 90s diesel is going to smoke a bit when you hammer it.

Mark Piercy said:

At full chat it'll smoke black of grey. Mine chuffs a grey cloud at full chat also. As long as it doesn't resemble a steam train

Click to expand...

Mine barely smokes but most of the top of my engine is new!