10mm Spacers with Original Wheel Nuts

SES88 · Jul 26, 2013

As title, bought some 10mm spacers to enable my new 225/75's to fit a little better. They came with a set of longer wheel studs, however as this means removing disks & drums to press them into the hubs, and possibly new wheel bearings too if i have to remove the hubs, then i want to avoid if possible.

Am i ok with the original nuts and studs? I know Singvogel says he uses 10mm spacers in the winter, presume this is with standard studs & nuts or it'd be a PITA when he wants to use his snow chains! They still nip up fine, and still have quite a few full rotations before they nip against the wheel (the spacers are on now).

Anybody?

Thor1950 · Jul 26, 2013

SES88 said:
As title, bought some 10mm spacers to enable my new 225/75's to fit a little better. They came with a set of longer wheel studs, however as this means removing disks & drums to press them into the hubs, and possibly new wheel bearings too if i have to remove the hubs, then i want to avoid if possible.

Am i ok with the original nuts and studs? I know Singvogel says he uses 10mm spacers in the winter, presume this is with standard studs & nuts or it'd be a PITA when he wants to use his snow chains! They still nip up fine, and still have quite a few full rotations before they nip against the wheel (the spacers are on now).

Anybody?

would you run your car with only 2 brakes working, or 1/2 the required amount of oil in the engine?

SES88 · Jul 26, 2013

Thor1950 said:
would you run your car with only 2 brakes working, or 1/2 the required amount of oil in the engine?

Well no, but they still sit about 15mm onto the stud, and torque up fine. doesn't matter where a nut sits on a bolt, it'll still torque the same, as long as its not literally perched on the end.

Thor1950 · Jul 26, 2013

SES88 said:
Well no, but they still sit about 15mm onto the stud, and torque up fine. doesn't matter where a nut sits on a bolt, it'll still torque the same, as long as its not literally perched on the end.

you are using 10mm less threads, the length of threads are there for a reason, to keep your tyres on and keep you safe by using 10mm less threads you could be voiding insurance and could be well fooked. Just saying

SES88 · Jul 26, 2013

Thor1950 said:
you are using 10mm less threads, the length of threads are there for a reason, to keep your tyres on and keep you safe by using 10mm less threads you could be voiding insurance and could be well fooked. Just saying

Yeah i see where you're coming from, and take your point on board. But way i see it, is a bolt will still torque the same and therefore be no easier to work its way free.

Thor1950 · Jul 26, 2013

SES88 said:
Yeah i see where you're coming from, and take your point on board. But way i see it, is a bolt will still torque the same and therefore be no easier to work its way free.

you need the threads for strength holding power. torque does not come into play on this picture you have painted

Nodge68 · Jul 26, 2013

In theory the nut should be have at least 12 full turns for maximum clamping load. However I have a rear disc conversion on my Classic Avenger that leaves around 9 turns of thread in the nut. I've run this set up many miles with out problem although the vehicle is half the weight of the Freelander. Personally in your situation I'd fit the longer studs.

Pikey · Jul 26, 2013

more turns equal less force on each thread section. half the threads = twice the stress

SES88 · Jul 26, 2013

Looks like its new studs time on sunday! thanks for the honesty, appreciate it

Singvogel · Jul 26, 2013

SES88 said:
Singvogel says he uses 10mm spacers in the winter

Indeed I do, with the standard length studs. But of course thats at low speed and for short distances.

I carry 2 spare wheels with chains already fitted as I can switch front wheels in sub-zero temperatures easier than I can fit the chains.

I have 7mm spacers for the rare ocassion I need a 2nd set of chains on the rears.

These were the minimum thickness of spacers to get the 9mm chains to fit with 5mm clearance from the strut spring-cups.

I've never counted how many turns of the nuts that gives.

Nodge - where does the figure of 12 turns come from?

Nodge68 · Jul 27, 2013

Singvogel said:
Indeed I do,

Nodge - where does the figure of 12 turns come from?

I worked the figure out.
When I did automotive engineering many moons ago the tutor always said a thread should enguage 1.5X the bolt diameter. So applying that ratio to the 12mm X1.5mm wheel stud is easy. Thread pitch of 1.5 would require 12 turns for correct engagement.

Singvogel · Jul 27, 2013

Nodge68 said:
I worked the figure out.
When I did automotive engineering many moons ago the tutor always said a thread should enguage 1.5X the bolt diameter. So applying that ratio to the 12mm X1.5mm wheel stud is easy. Thread pitch of 1.5 would require 12 turns for correct engagement.

That's great, thanks.

I'll remember that for other situations too.

So to take it a step further on the Freelander studs - we would need to have 18mm available free thread after fitting the spacer and wheel.

Nodge68 · Jul 27, 2013

Singvogel said:
That's great, thanks.

I'll remember that for other situations too.

So to take it a step further on the Freelander studs - we would need to have 18mm available free thread after fitting the spacer and wheel.

Correct

sadly there is around 18mm of thread visible without spacers so adding 10mm spacers would leave 8mm of thread or 5 turns which isn't really enough to maintain the clamping loads.
Also don't forget a wheel stud is under massive loadings in lots of different ways. There is a constant tension as well as sideways torque in one direction when the vehicle accelerates then in the other direction when the brakes are applied. A vehicle like a Freelander would apply a hub torque of 50,000 ftlb or more! Imagine the load that puts on those 5 12mm studs.

The Mad Hat Man · Jul 27, 2013

"sideways torque"

I think you will find that is called "shear"

.

Nodge68 · Jul 27, 2013

The Mad Hat Man said:
"sideways torque"

I think you will find that is called "shear" .

I simplified it

Although to be correct there isn't a true shear loading as the stud doesn't actually touch the wheel at all but held centrally in a void created by the nut taper. So the stud is bent and stretched constantly. Whatever the exact terms used to describe the loadings they are there and need to be controlled correctly

The Mad Hat Man · Jul 27, 2013

Absolutely. My pedantry was showing for a min

.

SES88 · Jul 30, 2013

Going back to this...
I ended up buying the H&R kit, and had a read of the book that came with it, they advise that for an M12x1.5 bolt the minimum that can be acceptable is 10mm, so don't know what they do differently to work out their figures...

teddywood1 · Jul 30, 2013

some one on here replaced a stud by just grinding a bit of the hub and thus did not have to remove the hub ,Would I do it I do not really know and nodge knows his stuff I wish there was these courses when I was a young lad

SES88 · Jul 30, 2013

Yeah i saw the thread with the ground hub, wouldn't do that myself really!
I don't doubt he does know his stuff, and the logic behind it makes sense, was just saying what the H&R booklet said, will get a photo of it tomorrow as I left the boxes at the unit.

JC600 · Jul 31, 2013

Simon, what torque settings are in the H&R booklet for spacer to hub nuts. Want to check mine.

10mm Spacers with Original Wheel Nuts

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Dummy Ejection Facilitator..

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads