Freelander 1 SOLVED; Turns over but no start…

[Freddie17]

Evening guys and gals…
(FL1 TD4)

Strange one, and an easy fix I’m hoping… Freddie has been running sweet all winter and into spring. Used him regularly, and was out on farmland only this weekend. Jumped in this morning, and he was just turning over, not firing. This is all of a sudden, and with no ‘warning’ or poor ignition over the weeks. My head thinks electrical somewhere? Loose connection dropped off possibly. Could even be a popped fuse (wishful thinking!)

My first thought was a possible key fob/immobiliser issue, but he wouldn’t start on the spare set either. Had no time today as had to go to work - just got back and still the same so have battery off for a charge as well as an electrics ‘reset’ (battery is strong, but needs a top-up after this afternoon).

I know the HPFP O rings are known to cause such issues, but so suddenly? LP pump is only a few months old (and filter), and is humming along on ignition.


Any obvious go-to known issues, before I crack out the toolbox’s this weekend?

TIA

 

[andyfreelandy]

Immobiliser issue would prevent cranking.
Check the plug on the end of the fuel rail. This pressure sensor plug gets corroded connections and can turn green with build up of crud. Easy to check. Battery end of fuel.rail. 3 wires.

 

[Freddie17]

Immobiliser issue would prevent cranking.
Check the plug on the end of the fuel rail. This pressure sensor plug gets corroded connections and can turn green with build up of crud. Easy to check. Battery end of fuel.rail. 3 wires.

Ah ok - didn’t realise the immobiliser prevented cranking - thought it cut off fuel !
Will check the sensor - appreciate the tip.

 

[GrumpyGel]

I agree it is unlikely to be immobiliser - but it is possible to get cranking but the engine ECU fuel injection is imobilised (at least on early cars).

If you have diag kit, worth having a looksie. Should also tell you fuel pressures.

 

[andyfreelandy]

I agree it is unlikely to be immobiliser - but it is possible to get cranking but the engine ECU fuel injection is imobilised (at least on early cars).

Didn't know the early ones did that, the TD4 immobiliser, if not correctly satisfied, cuts the feed to the starter motor relay so no solenoid and no starter operates.

 

[GrumpyGel]

Didn't know the early ones did that, the TD4 immobiliser, if not correctly satisfied, cuts the feed to the starter motor relay so no solenoid and no starter operates.

Yeh, but in previous ownerships, its possible that the earth for the relay has been rerouted to a permanent earth to bodge other issues. Unlikely, but possible.

 

[Freddie17]

I agree it is unlikely to be immobiliser - but it is possible to get cranking but the engine ECU fuel injection is imobilised (at least on early cars).

If you have diag kit, worth having a looksie. Should also tell you fuel pressures.

Yeah… I sent my icarsoft scanner back after being seriously unimpressed with its ability.
I vowed that I would buy the Pscan, just haven’t needed to (so far!)

 

[andyfreelandy]

Pscan also tells you whether the immobiliser is active or deactivated. Brilliant unit.

 

[Freddie17]

Update - threw the (fully charged) battery back on this morning just to see what would happen… exactly the same, although in the first 2 seconds of crank it tried to fire, then nothing again.
So fuel related somewhere…?

Have emailed @pscan.eu to order the Pscan unit, as well as O-ring kit for HPFP (pennies, so might as well do it). Other than that, a little sniff around under the bonnet later until my email is picked up and Pscan dispatched - hopefully arrives before the weekend!

 

[Freddie17]

Further update;
Tinkered again tonight whilst waiting for the Pscan to arrive… cranked and almost fired again, before knackering the battery.
So I’m leaning to fuel related issue?

 

[GrumpyGel]

Going by what I see on here, these non start issues are generally fuel, or electrics relating to fuel.

The regulator O rings, fuel rail sensor, lift pump being the primary ones.

It would be interesting if easy start would fire the engine up. It can build the revs up so that O ring leakage and sensor drop passes a critical level to allow the engine to then run - but obviously doesn't fix the problem.

 

[Freddie17]

Going by what I see on here, these non start issues are generally fuel, or electrics relating to fuel.

The regulator O rings, fuel rail sensor, lift pump being the primary ones.

It would be interesting if easy start would fire the engine up. It can build the revs up so that O ring leakage and sensor drop passes a critical level to allow the engine to then run - but obviously doesn't fix the problem.

Well I’ve ordered an O ring kit, just in case. I’ve cleaned the rail sensor (was clean anyway), though of course it could have ‘failed’ electrically.
I’m hoping the Pscan offers me a lead…

 

[Dar ran Dar ran]

Going by what I see on here, these non start issues are generally fuel, or electrics relating to fuel.

The regulator O rings, fuel rail sensor, lift pump being the primary ones.

It would be interesting if easy start would fire the engine up. It can build the revs up so that O ring leakage and sensor drop passes a critical level to allow the engine to then run - but obviously doesn't fix the problem.

Same problem on one this week second hand regulator fixed it
Try easy start if like the other one this week it starts and runs but knock it off and no start it’s probably the regulator

 

[Freddie17]

Same problem on one this week second hand regulator fixed it
Try easy start if like the other one this week it starts and runs but knock it off and no start it’s probably the regulator

The regulator itself, or the o rings?
I have all the air box/pipes off at the moment, so will try the easy-start test and report back

 

[Dar ran Dar ran]

The regulator itself, or the o rings?
I have all the air box/pipes off at the moment, so will try the easy-start test and report back

I gave him a spare regulator and it fixed
Same problem as you parked up would not start next day he’s tried cam crank sensor
Then it was suggested about the regulator I had a spare and it’s now running 100%

 

[Freddie17]

I gave him a spare regulator and it fixed
Same problem as you parked up would not start next day he’s tried cam crank sensor
Then it was suggested about the regulator I had a spare and it’s now running 100%

Will replace the O rings - just heard the Pscan should be here for weekend, so may help understand more then.

Any idea on the long-reach socket size for the rail sensor (battery end)? Connection looks fine, but may well replace the sensor… when I can get the bloody thing out! Must be about 25mm or so?

 

[Freddie17]

Thinking about it - I may just get a new regulator and fit it. If I replace the O rings and refit to a state to be able to fire it up, then find out it needs the regulator, I’ll kick myself. Hard.

 

[Freddie17]

Question..; I have the regulator out right now (O rings look ok to me, but fitting new). If I put 12v power to the 2 terminals at the end of the regulator, should it ‘do something’? E.g. can I test it?

 

[GrumpyGel]

Question..; I have the regulator out right now (O rings look ok to me, but fitting new). If I put 12v power to the 2 terminals at the end of the regulator, should it ‘do something’? E.g. can I test it?

Go on do it.

Just secure it in a vice first and don't aim it at the cat.

They're cheap enough to give us some entertainment in your description of what calamity unfolded.

 

[Freddie17]

Go on do it.

Just secure it in a vice first and don't aim it at the cat.

They're cheap enough to give us some entertainment in your description of what calamity unfolded.

Well, funny you say that… I did last night

But only after I got fed up with it all (eventually got the regulator out - what fool thought using torx bolts in an area where you can’t easily get to…. Wait, it’s a LR…)
Anyway, got the regulator out, checked the O rings and have to say, they looked fine. Replaced them anyway, then thought to myself there is no way I’m putting all this back together, just to find out it might be the regulator unit itself, so ordered a shiney new one to fit.

So, not knowing what it ‘should’ do, or how it works, I stuck 12v across the back of the old one - only 2 terminals. Small little fizzes and sparks ensued… and nothing else happened. I thought it would spin or hum or something?

So that was a let down. But I’m also hoping it is indeed ‘broken’. And my new one solves the issue.

Tune in this weekend to find out more!

Spend so far to resolve this minor issue of NOT STARTING;
Pscan £180
New tools to get to stupidly hidden awkward bolts £20
New tools because I saw them and fancied them while getting the above tools £50
Parts £120

Issues so far;
Broke 2 manifold bolts. Solved by getting 2 m6 40mm and fitting them into the ‘captive’ sleeves (now modified) in the manifold
Hurt my hand. Lots.
Played ‘hunt the socket’ in the depths of the engine bay. Twice.