Tired on Condensation on the front windscreen

Darmain said:

I've heard of another trick. The IRD and EGR cooling is in parallel with the heat matrix and robs the latter of warm water until everything gets hot. One idea is to re-pipe the heater matrix so that it is series with the IRD and then the EGR. That way the cabin gets full heat quickly. Not done it myself but I've heard the results are good.

My hippo had a leaking matrix also, windows would never clear. A bottle of rad weld fixed that, for now. Also the SRS controller got damp from the leak and occationally plays silly buggers.

Click to expand...

Not wishing to criticise you, but the design of the water going through the ird as well as the engine is to keep them at the same temperature, as they heat up. Expansion of metal etc. The plumbing should be left as it is.

tedshred said:

As the mornings and evenings are getting damper and colder, has anyone managed to find a way to stop all the condensation on the front window.

Click to expand...

Mine did this all the time so when in halfords i brought some rain X , wiped on windows as instructions .


Works a treat

Hippo said:

Not wishing to criticise you, but the design of the water going through the ird as well as the engine is to keep them at the same temperature, as they heat up. Expansion of metal etc. The plumbing should be left as it is.

Click to expand...

No offence taken. As I said, it was an idea I had come across rather than devised. Your point should not be dismissed out of hand. I understood that the IRD cooling was to stop the oil from getting to thin due to the heat generation in the IRD bearings. Is it therefore possible to 'overcool' the IRD?

Darmain said:

No offence taken. As I said, it was an idea I had come across rather than devised. Your point should not be dismissed out of hand. I understood that the IRD cooling was to stop the oil from getting to thin due to the heat generation in the IRD bearings. Is it therefore possible to 'overcool' the IRD?

Click to expand...

The max temp of the engine coolant will be limited by the thermostat on the engine coolant. However, the engine will be pushing against this when working hard, so there is a maximum limit as to when they want the coolant to start cooling down a little quicker. The IRD will follow the same pattern as it’s sharing the water.

As the IRD needs to be the same temp as the engine, and the engine runs farley hot whilst in operation, then I would expect naturally to have to keep the IRD at a similar temp, or minimum temp below the engine temp, say 10 degrees for arguments sack. If this were not complied with, then metal expansion at different rates could cause leaks.

On the video’s I posted for the rover kv6 timing belt change they mention there’s a value that closes to allow the engine to warm up quicker prior to the heater, I think, from memory. Hence the engine, and therefore the IRD, are given priority in warming to optimum working temp, over the cabin heater.

I would have thought the IRD heat would be important, as the oil is 85w90. One figure is starting temp and the other is running temp. “How runny the oil is” rating. Hence there must be some rule of thought with respect to IRD oil and water temp v oil condition.

I'm no expert, but I'd put money on it that LR put coolant through the IRD for a number of reasons. Longer life, better operating conditions for the bits n bobs inside.

Had the same problem. I was recommended to change the pollen filter, changed it and what a difference.... No more damp windscreen.... best £18 spent

Hippo said:

The max temp of the engine coolant will be limited by the thermostat on the engine coolant. However, the engine will be pushing against this when working hard, so there is a maximum limit as to when they want the coolant to start cooling down a little quicker. The IRD will follow the same pattern as its sharing the water.

As the IRD needs to be the same temp as the engine, and the engine runs farley hot whilst in operation, then I would expect naturally to have to keep the IRD at a similar temp, or minimum temp below the engine temp, say 10 degrees for arguments sack. If this were not complied with, then metal expansion at different rates could cause leaks.

On the videos I posted for the rover kv6 timing belt change they mention theres a value that closes to allow the engine to warm up quicker prior to the heater, I think, from memory. Hence the engine, and therefore the IRD, are given priority in warming to optimum working temp, over the cabin heater.

I would have thought the IRD heat would be important, as the oil is 85w90. One figure is starting temp and the other is running temp. How runny the oil is rating. Hence there must be some rule of thought with respect to IRD oil and water temp v oil condition.

I'm no expert, but I'd put money on it that LR put coolant through the IRD for a number of reasons. Longer life, better operating conditions for the bits n bobs inside.

Click to expand...

They added the IRD intercooler for 3 reasons;

a) they hoped to get 160k miles outta the oil

2) It was an after thought

d) they didn't really know what they were doing. 0.8% difference in the diff ratios made it overheat. They just fudged the rest.

I made an IRD air scoop many years ago, works fine.
I fitted a 2nd IRD a few months back and left the coolant hoses plugged so there is no extra cooling on the IRD
She now heats up quicker and runs better than it ever did.

The purpose of cooling the IRD oil is to keep it below the temperature at which it breaks down and fails to act as a lubricant.
The bevel gears in the IRD are of hypoid geometry and undergo sliding as well as rolling in the contact region. The other gears are helical and only experience rolling contact and friction is relatively low. Sliding generates much more heat than rolling and Extreme Pressure (EP) lubricants are used in such gears to protect them from scuffing and premature failure.
By arranging a heat exchanger between the IRD oil and the engine coolant, the oil is firstly heated up quickly to working temperature by the coolant and is then prevented from reaching an excessively high temperature at which the lubricant would break down, thus protecting the gears, by dumping heat to the coolant.
On the hypoid/differential arrangement usually found on axles the surface area of the casing is relatively large and is exposed to the cooling airflow under the car, so does not require additional cooling. The IRD on the Freelander is in close proximity to the sump (temperatures > 100 deg C) and is definitely not in a cooling air flow, hence the need for engineered cooling.

Sorry Newbies but I've heard enough

do you really think LR and those 'Austrians' pre-planned the working concept of an inter-cooler.

It was nothing to do with pre-heating the oil to working temperature, or expansion coefficients of metals, considering they are both LM25 casting aluminium for most of the setups that shouldn't be a problem.

The original proposed life of the Ird oil was 160k, so tell me why after only 50k the oil is shot, not too mention the bearings.

Hypoids are nothing new, modern oils are specified to deal with the slip/slide issues because of friction modifiers, mainly zinc disulphides

The overheating comes from the difference in the ratios between front and back, not a hypoid issue.
The V6 engines would have had a heat issue alone because of the 172bhp power output. This is also seen in MG cars of 160bhp outputs or more, where an intercooler is fitted to the gearbox.

So following simple LR logic of a, 2, d, why did they incorporate extra cooling and then cocoon the whole transmission with a plastic undertray? Not to mention have the hottest part of the exhaust run directly underneath.

Lets face it after the Maestro van muel abomination used to test the original setup, they got it horribly wrong from the outset, then they were in denial about the whole ratio thing, eventually changing it in 2001.

The new ratios shouldnt need an intercooler fitted at all, neither the early 1.8 or diesel engines due to their low power outputs. Even the Radiator was oversized for the 1.8, but then one size fits all policy was LR's approach.

The metals heating up stuff came from a book by James Taylor. It’s well published in other books/mags. History of Freelander design. Info buy the designers themselves.

The maestro van thing was simply something they had which fitted over the Freelander set-up whilst in road testing. You can’t hold it against LR of using a maestro van?

LR spent millions on the development of the Freelander. The water-cooling must been needed for a reason.

cheers Hippo, I have that publication for project CB40.

Sure they spent millions, but it still wasn't enough.
When you have hauled out an IRD, then you will begin to appreciate how the design teams never spoke to the production engineers.

I mean take the rear diff, how hard would it have been to fit a drain plug?

They over complicated the drivetrain and were grossly over looked the simple aspects.
They've still got it wrong in the FL2

:hijacked: oh lets not start on the FL2 now....

So is the FL2 the same as the FL1? IRD with VCU and rear diff? Never bothered looking under one, as I don't think I'll ever buy another LR product...

Would agree about the rear drain plug being missing. Tiz silly.

So after a serious, but interesting digression, the information I saw, which I believe was on this site, suggested replumbing the heater matrix to put it in series with the IRD and EGR cooling.

If the IRD cooling is to balance metal expansion so to stop leaks, then it doesn't work. Why would LR want the oil to last 160K, they can't keep it in the box that long, mine is falling out, as it is out of the gearbox, and engine. It's not falling out the rear diff, maybe thay forgot to put any in.

Therefore if we want the IRD to run cool then giving it cooler water will help. Use the heater to cool it first then send it down yonder. Everything wins.

The condensation on my windscreen was awfull too. I carried kitchen rolls around to remove the worst off it. I checked for leaks everywhere and there was no damp smell around. One day when waiting for SWMBO in the rain I just happened to see a tiny drip falling in the passenger side at the bottom front of the door, going down the side of the carpet. When I got a chance I lifted the carpet which was bone dry on top, because it has a waterproof backing. Sure enough the whole floorpan and under felt was swimming. I traced the leak right back up through the door pillar to the ridge on the roof where the roof rails are mounted. The window rubber seal was not fitted properly where it crossed the roof ridge. I put a hose on it and proved it, in at the window seal, round and straight down the door pillar, down the side/back off the carpet and in to the footwell. This had been like this from new, and when I mentioned it to LR, nothing. A little bit of sealant, three hours with hot air gun and it was done, its fine now, just a little misting which is controlled with the air con on. I put up with that for four years before I saw the little tell tale drop.

Rev

That's great to hear will lift carpets on Sunday

Hi people, I'm new to this site. I read previously on this site about the freelander 1 having a common problem with the heater matrix leaking. The carpet on the passenger footwell is wet and it is definitely coolant leaking out. As someone else said, you can't see the matrix to confirm it, but there is nothing else uner the dash that could cause the problem. If anyone has replaced one of these, are there any points to be careful of when pulling out the dash? I've got to do mine soon as it is driving me mad, windscreen steams up when using the ventilation system. Are any special tools needed? Where is the cheapest place to buy a heater matrix?? Any advice welcomed.

Thanks

Source of heater matrix. E-bay, LR dealer, motor factors, LR mags adverts etc.

Get the RAVE CD, plenty of download links on here, search for RAVE.

Get a Haynes manual as a guide also.

What FL1 do you have? What age? What engine?

Search for heater matrix. There's plenty about as you seem to have found out.

Good luck.

Ok, know this thread is a bit old, but I'd like to blow some life into it.


I got the same problem. And it's all the windows. The rear ones never lose it !

Is there any FL owner that doesn't have this problem?

But every old-ish car has moisture/water coming in. But never seen the problem of steaming up so persistent as on the Freelander. I have been scaping ice on the INSIDE this winter.

I know there are remedies, but is there a real solution, or is it a design fault. (that is what I've always thought)

Any expert available who knows ?

And if so (design fault) would you be able you explain why ?


Thanks.

i bet yu got water in yo rear cubby box - its a common fault and as soon as the temp rises in your car, the water condenses on the rear window. check that floor box out, but dont be surprised if it is half full of water.

Had condensation inside my Freelander - think it came from the cubby in the rear. Air con has a gas leak, and don't want to spend money getting it fixed, so couldn't use it to get rid of condensation.

Bought one of these from B&Q, and found it wedges nicely in the recess where the rear armrest folds down from. And next day, hey presto, no condensation.

This isn't a solution if you've got a leak somewhere in the cabin, but reckon it should be alright if it's just moisture from people in the car/wet jackets.

There are cheaper version of this around - but not sure if they'd fit in the same place. You'd need to make sure it's not going to fall over and spill salty water over the floor, as that would be a quick way to a rusty floorpan.

Hope this helps,
Andrew