TD4 no power and overheating ?

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R

rdainton

New Member
Posts
35
Location
Cotswolds
Ok, so this follows on from my bio diesel experiences..
its a long one...so get a coffee or something.

summary
I inadvertantly put bio-diesel in my td4.
and shortly after (less than 10 miles) it starts crackling and spitting..
so i assumed i was doing it in..

advice was given, dilute the bio-d with real diesel and changle fuel filter.

hadnt got round to the fuel filter yet, but diluted and drove it about.
still crackling and generally playing up.

new sypmtoms..
anyways..today coming back along the motor way..i notice the temp gauge had gone right up to the red line , thinking i had slipped a belt i pulled over to have a look.

as soon as i stopped even before i turned the engine off, the gauge drops back to normal (9oclock position)
opened bonnet, fans running highspeed, all belts ok. water low but still ok. no leaks. rad hoses feel ok, top one hot, bottom one cold.

got back in and reved it....seems ok...i drive alone the shoulder and when still ok pull back out into traffic.
after another halfmile...it does it again...temp in the red and no power.
once again when i stop....i goes back to normal.

basically i limped 4 miles along the hard shoulder, and got it off the motorway and into a layby.
each time i got it under load it red-lined and i lost most of the power.

checked everything again..all ok as far as i could tell.
gave up...called AA..
waited and hour. engine cools..
AA man arrives...and listens to my tale..
and gets me to start it up...
and gears up to do a cooling system diagnostic...

so he does something odd with the cooling water expansion tank...apparently a head gasket failure test...bubbling the air in the cooling tank through some blueish liquid..not sure what...but appearently
its not HGF.

next a pressure test...he blocks the expansion tank..and pressurises it..
we wait...no leak...we run the engine...no leak.

so now he gets me to run it at 2000rpm..for about 10-15 mins..
it warms up...but no redline.
all the whire he is using a laser/IR thermometer to check the coolant pipes temp. the rad temp and the engine block.

the determination after this is that he cannot find the fault..and its been running fine for 35-45 mins..AND hasn't crackled or spat once !!
he suggests he follow me home.

we start...and after 3 or four miles...it does it again, redline no power.
still no crackling or spitting though, i pull over pop the bonnet....the gauge goes back to normal....he checks the temps...Engine 68deg. Rad 56deg.

he reckons its a faulty sensor...and i should ignore the temp gauge

we drive off again....within half a mile the gauge goes up power drops off.
so i continue...waiting for it to go bang...it doesn't
2miles..
3miles..
4miles
but i get slower and slower till im doing 25 miles an hour with an AA truck and a huge queue of cars behind...

here comes a hill...only a slight incline...speed drops of to below 20mph.

i pull over. gauge goes back to the normal position..
again the temp is check with the laser/ir thermometer..
engine temp 79degs, rad67. and idling no problem
we wait a few mins....

again we drive off, i have all my power back...
up the hill, down the other side...up the start of the next...
gauge redlines...no power...
so we decide to give up and he tows me 30+ miles home..

all the way home, engine is running fine (to give me power steering and brakes.). no redlines. just sat on normal.
and its still not crackling or spitting.
(noticable be cause it has been spitting since the bio-D went in)

so ok , im home..
with a less than quarter of a tank of mixed bio-d and real Diesel.
but now i'm expecting it to lose power and redline the temp gauge after it gets up to normal temp.

the AA man reckons one of the sensors is telling fibs to the ECU..
as he can see the actual temp with his fancy laser/IR thermometer.
and its in a kind of limp home mode..but if so....its odd...cos no warning lights are on the dash...and its only a limp home if you live somewhere with no hills.

what do i need to look for now..could it still be MAF related power loss as was suggested in the bio diesel spluttering thread ?
where are the temp sensors..and are they easy to get at?

its odd, because now...the fuel seems to be buring ok.
so if something has failed completely now...cause the current symptoms..
could it have cause the misfiring when it was on the way out.

i guess what i'm trying to avoid is the garage spending an hour or three trying to reproduce the fault before trying to fix it as i'm guessing I have 15-20mins of driving time from cold before the fault will comeback.

all advice welcome...even the amusing flak from the boys with tratters.

cheers.
rich.
 
one injector is fooked. . . .change the fuel filter. . . .slap a load er jector cleaner innit. . . .un run it. . . .un stop moanin :D :D :D
 
rdainton said:
so he does something odd with the cooling water expansion tank...apparently a head gasket failure test...bubbling the air in the cooling tank through some blueish liquid..not sure what...but appearently
its not HGF.
Click to expand...

also known as a sniff test, chemicals in the blue liquid react with combustion products which would be present in the header tank if the HGF had failed in such a way to allow combustion products into the cooling system. Generally ok, but not always 100% reliable on a diesel engine.

other than that, at a bit of a loss as to what to suggest.

Does the eml come on when you turn the ignition on ?
 
rdainton said:
Ok, so this follows on from my bio diesel experiences..
its a long one...so get a coffee or something.

summary
I inadvertantly put bio-diesel in my td4.
and shortly after (less than 10 miles) it starts crackling and spitting..
so i assumed i was doing it in..

advice was given, dilute the bio-d with real diesel and changle fuel filter.

hadnt got round to the fuel filter yet, but diluted and drove it about.
still crackling and generally playing up.

new sypmtoms..
anyways..today coming back along the motor way..i notice the temp gauge had gone right up to the red line , thinking i had slipped a belt i pulled over to have a look.

as soon as i stopped even before i turned the engine off, the gauge drops back to normal (9oclock position)
opened bonnet, fans running highspeed, all belts ok. water low but still ok. no leaks. rad hoses feel ok, top one hot, bottom one cold.

got back in and reved it....seems ok...i drive alone the shoulder and when still ok pull back out into traffic.
after another halfmile...it does it again...temp in the red and no power.
once again when i stop....i goes back to normal.

basically i limped 4 miles along the hard shoulder, and got it off the motorway and into a layby.
each time i got it under load it red-lined and i lost most of the power.

checked everything again..all ok as far as i could tell.
gave up...called AA..
waited and hour. engine cools..
AA man arrives...and listens to my tale..
and gets me to start it up...
and gears up to do a cooling system diagnostic...

so he does something odd with the cooling water expansion tank...apparently a head gasket failure test...bubbling the air in the cooling tank through some blueish liquid..not sure what...but appearently
its not HGF.

next a pressure test...he blocks the expansion tank..and pressurises it..
we wait...no leak...we run the engine...no leak.

so now he gets me to run it at 2000rpm..for about 10-15 mins..
it warms up...but no redline.
all the whire he is using a laser/IR thermometer to check the coolant pipes temp. the rad temp and the engine block.

the determination after this is that he cannot find the fault..and its been running fine for 35-45 mins..AND hasn't crackled or spat once !!
he suggests he follow me home.

we start...and after 3 or four miles...it does it again, redline no power.
still no crackling or spitting though, i pull over pop the bonnet....the gauge goes back to normal....he checks the temps...Engine 68deg. Rad 56deg.

he reckons its a faulty sensor...and i should ignore the temp gauge

we drive off again....within half a mile the gauge goes up power drops off.
so i continue...waiting for it to go bang...it doesn't
2miles..
3miles..
4miles
but i get slower and slower till im doing 25 miles an hour with an AA truck and a huge queue of cars behind...

here comes a hill...only a slight incline...speed drops of to below 20mph.

i pull over. gauge goes back to the normal position..
again the temp is check with the laser/ir thermometer..
engine temp 79degs, rad67. and idling no problem
we wait a few mins....

again we drive off, i have all my power back...
up the hill, down the other side...up the start of the next...
gauge redlines...no power...
so we decide to give up and he tows me 30+ miles home..

all the way home, engine is running fine (to give me power steering and brakes.). no redlines. just sat on normal.
and its still not crackling or spitting.
(noticable be cause it has been spitting since the bio-D went in)

so ok , im home..
with a less than quarter of a tank of mixed bio-d and real Diesel.
but now i'm expecting it to lose power and redline the temp gauge after it gets up to normal temp.

the AA man reckons one of the sensors is telling fibs to the ECU..
as he can see the actual temp with his fancy laser/IR thermometer.
and its in a kind of limp home mode..but if so....its odd...cos no warning lights are on the dash...and its only a limp home if you live somewhere with no hills.

what do i need to look for now..could it still be MAF related power loss as was suggested in the bio diesel spluttering thread ?
where are the temp sensors..and are they easy to get at?

its odd, because now...the fuel seems to be buring ok.
so if something has failed completely now...cause the current symptoms..
could it have cause the misfiring when it was on the way out.

i guess what i'm trying to avoid is the garage spending an hour or three trying to reproduce the fault before trying to fix it as i'm guessing I have 15-20mins of driving time from cold before the fault will comeback.

all advice welcome...even the amusing flak from the boys with tratters.

cheers.
rich.
Click to expand...

Very interesting post, as is your previous re: biodeisel.

I have had a very similar experience, except for the 'overheating'. I also have a 2002 TD4, I usually run on BP Deisel Ultima because I found she runs much smoother on it than on other cheaper deisel.

However, recently went up to Scotland, ran fine on BP Ultima. Re-fuelled at Esso station in Callander with 'normal' deisel.

Drove about 30 miles towards my destination, and vehicle started to splutter a little. Next day problem got worse, then the crackling started, especially at low speed. noisy and jumping, then died on me twice, managed to get started. Eventually, more crackling and juddering, broke down on a country road in middle of nowhere. Called out RAC, he said it was some kind of fuel contamination, possible petrol or water in the deisel. However, he disconnected the fuel line, after the fuel filter, asked me to kick the engine over, it spouted out some fuel, he said it smelt ok and reconnected. She was running fine, he said it must have cleared the line. He followed me back to where I was staying, ran perfectly.

Next day..guess what, crackling again. Got home, 300 miles, crackling, spluttering. Refilled with BP Ultima, still same.However, disconnecting fuel line, pumping out some fuel, is OK again for a while.

Have now given heavy dose of Redox & millers, changed fuel filter, changed crankcase breather, changed small vacuum filter at back of engine, checked inlet hoses, recent air filter & oil change, tried two MAF sensors, original & Roverrons. Guess what... still crackling slightly....but only about 15 miles done so far....fingers crossed.

Note: crackling is worse with Roverrons Synergy switched on, so have switched it off for now!

Anyone any comments???
 
hmm,
to ming :)
who's moanin ? i just want a quiet life...i should have bought a skateboard.
only one injector ?

to OP
with regard to lights....all the normal lights including the Engine management light, illuminate and then go out after a few seconds.
running fine again this morning...no spitting...but
i cant trust it now.

to joiner
i took my roverron box off as soon as the crackling started.
it was awful with it on.

but the oddest thing is now...
despite the 'over heating' (which isnt real) and lack of power
the engine is running smoothly. no crackling at all.

unfortunately...its all beyond my skills now.
as anything i do filters, injector cleaner
isnt going to give me confidence that the power loss and gauge problem wont come back.
so i shall probly have to give it to the garage to look at.

what and where is the sensor that runs the temp gauge...
and is it the same one the reports temp to the ECU ?
 
Might be usefull if you get a fault code reader plugged into it, took mine to garage when i had a problem (different to yours) and he plugged it in and took it for a drive to see which code come up, might be able to tell if there's a dodgy signal sent to the ECU when it's hot. Only cost me a tenner.
 
one injector is fooked. . . .change the fuel filter. . . .slap a load er jector cleaner innit. . . .un run it. . . .un stop moanin
Click to expand...


Got to agree with Ming, it's got to be worth a try before going to the garage.
 
ee it do sound like a fuel blockage.. don't listen to ming ..you should try changing yer filter first and bung some injector cleaner in it before yer spend any more money
 
rdainton said:
hmm,
to ming :)
who's moanin ? i just want a quiet life...i should have bought a skateboard.
only one injector ?

to OP
with regard to lights....all the normal lights including the Engine management light, illuminate and then go out after a few seconds.
running fine again this morning...no spitting...but
i cant trust it now.

?
Click to expand...
OK Earthling. . . . .i can only werk on wots yer telts me. . . . .REET, CHECK both yer fuel pumps [one in rear is normally the weakest] if one or tother go's weak , tother has to do twice the werk,low fuel pressure will reek havoc wiff the high pressure side. . . .but putting diagnostics on will show if you've had a low presser fault at any time, but it wont tell you wot pump. . . .best to disconnect in engine bay rear pump supply [it should **** out of an open pipe] if it hesitates or foams [thats a fault] if its good then check out the front wun [but remember it could be intermittent] thats why i say check diagnostics furst. . . .I'm not a great lover of phooters un motors ,but if you know wot your lookin for then it will save you chasing yer arse. . . . .hope this helps earthling :D :D :D
 
Good technical answer there Mong, nice to see your knowledge being shared with all us 'inferior' earthlings.:p
 
Well, after a few days in the safe and costly hands of my local garage...
one new water pump later i seem to have my freelander back with no 'overheating'

it seem that the impeller on the inside of the pump was not being driven by the pulley on the outside all the time.. sometimes it would have enough friction to cool the engine other times not.

so this might explain my odd experience of temp gauge going up and down.

Curiously, all the spitting and stuttering i had put down to the bio diesel has stayed away too..finally i've put some injector cleaner in.

so now i'm waiting for it to go wrong again :)
 
Cheers for letting us know the outcome, another fault highlighted for me to look out for!! (which eedjit mentioned fuel pumps:p).
 
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