P38A Torque converter came out with engine.....

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MrGorsky

MrGorsky

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Hello all,

Today I took the engine, gearbox (auto) and transfer box out of the car all in one long assembly.

With it all on a pallet, I separated the gearbox from the back of the engine but left the flexplate and TC on the back of the engine. I understand this was not the right thing to do.

What are my best options going forward? Do I just put it all back together, unbolt the flex plate through the inspection plate, and then separate the gearbox again? Nothing has moved I don’t think.

Or should I just take the TC off and install it in the bell housing? It’s all out of the car so access isn’t a problem. But I don’t want to mess things up any more!

Engine is off to V8 developments for top hatting, so I’ve got time to do it properly. I just don’t know what the best way forward is….
 
freelance said:
Assemble it all in transmission, only connect to flywheel when bell housing bolts are in and engine all joined up
Click to expand...

So all is not lost then! Thanks for the advice, So put the TC on the gearbox input shaft, offer up to engine, slide it in, bolt up bell housing, and only then install the flexplate bolts?

Is there a standard measurement I can make between the bell housing and front of the TC to ensure it's all the way in and fully meshed with the oil pump tangs?
 
MrGorsky said:
Hello all,

Today I took the engine, gearbox (auto) and transfer box out of the car all in one long assembly.

With it all on a pallet, I separated the gearbox from the back of the engine but left the flexplate and TC on the back of the engine. I understand this was not the right thing to do.

What are my best options going forward? Do I just put it all back together, unbolt the flex plate through the inspection plate, and then separate the gearbox again? Nothing has moved I don’t think.

Or should I just take the TC off and install it in the bell housing? It’s all out of the car so access isn’t a problem. But I don’t want to mess things up any more!

Engine is off to V8 developments for top hatting, so I’ve got time to do it properly. I just don’t know what the best way forward is….
Click to expand...
You may have damaged the oil pump drive for the auto box. You need to check carefully when you offer up the torque converter to the box that the drive tangs are OK and locate in the pump drive.
There is a correct dimension for the face of the torque converter to the face of the bell housing, I can't remember what it is but it's in RAVE.
 
Datatek said:
You may have damaged the oil pump drive for the auto box. You need to check carefully when you offer up the torque converter to the box that the drive tangs are OK and locate in the pump drive.
There is a correct dimension for the face of the torque converter to the face of the bell housing, I can't remember what it is but it's in RAVE.
Click to expand...
I was going to change the input seal now seeing as I've got the TC off. If I take the old one out, would I be able to see to check my pump tangs? WIth a torch or something? Or am I going to have to just try and engage it all ad hope for the best?
 
I'm sure someone raised the risk and suggested following the instructions in RAVE rather than winging it.

It must all come apart so it must be possible to reassemble it all again.
 
As it came apart on the floor, with no real strain on it, it should be fine. Take the TC off the engine and re-install on the transmission. It may have shims or washers between the flex plate and the TC, these will need to go back in place when you bolt it up in the car.

If you look at the oil pump drive lugs and the TC you will see how far it was engaged. It should be full depth less about 3-5mm. When you reinstall the engine, you will need to have the TC all the way back into the transmission. Then slide it forward to the flex plate, this should be only a small amount as noted, so the whole assembly “floats and is not hard into the transmission, but still has geed engagement.
 
Marshall8hp said:
As it came apart on the floor, with no real strain on it, it should be fine. Take the TC off the engine and re-install on the transmission. It may have shims or washers between the flex plate and the TC, these will need to go back in place when you bolt it up in the car.

If you look at the oil pump drive lugs and the TC you will see how far it was engaged. It should be full depth less about 3-5mm. When you reinstall the engine, you will need to have the TC all the way back into the transmission. Then slide it forward to the flex plate, this should be only a small amount as noted, so the whole assembly “floats and is not hard into the transmission, but still has geed engagement.
Click to expand...
You've been watching Turbo Yoda (with a Woody) :eek: @ the skid factory...I can tell.
 
Marshall8hp said:
As it came apart on the floor, with no real strain on it, it should be fine. Take the TC off the engine and re-install on the transmission. It may have shims or washers between the flex plate and the TC, these will need to go back in place when you bolt it up in the car.

If you look at the oil pump drive lugs and the TC you will see how far it was engaged. It should be full depth less about 3-5mm. When you reinstall the engine, you will need to have the TC all the way back into the transmission. Then slide it forward to the flex plate, this should be only a small amount as noted, so the whole assembly “floats and is not hard into the transmission, but still has geed engagement.
Click to expand...
Well that's certainly promising! Is it worth doing the flex plate whilst I'm in there? Don't think there's anything wrong with the old one, but a Britpart one seems reasonably cheap. Mines been flexing since 1998 and 160,000 miles. Do they wear out?
 
The flex plate can look OK on inspection but can have micro fractures that can't be seen with the naked eye, so probably best to replace with the mileage but wouldn't go britpart route.
 
stemac33 said:
The flex plate can look OK on inspection but can have micro fractures that can't be seen with the naked eye, so probably best to replace with the mileage but wouldn't go britpart route.
Click to expand...

No, I hate Britpart. I'll try and find a OEM one maybe.

myfirstl322 said:
What does the ring gear look like, engines tend to stop in the same position thus starter operates on same portion of gear which can cause wear.
Click to expand...

That's the only bit I've been able to look at, and it seemed pretty clean to me. I'll take a closer look when I take the TC off and sort that little lot out!
 
You MUST install the TC on the gearbox & it MUST be fully seated.
If it isn't you will be able to bolt it all up to the engine but when you start the engine you will have no drive as you will have damaged the pump & will need to take it all off again & replace the pump.

The cut-out slots you can see on the tube on the gearbox side of the TC engage with & drive the pump.

TC can be a bit of a pig to get to seat when the box is laid on its side (normal as-fitted-to-engine orientation) as the splines on the gearbox input shafts need to line up & engage with the relevant ones inside the TC & it's difficult to hold & it's very heavy.
Last time I did mine (ZF4HP22 on the Classic - basically the same box) I finally got fed up fighting it & stood the box up vertically using an engine crane. TC went on easily.
If you do it horizontally LR show 'special tools' which are two straight handles. These screw into two of the four bosses on the engine side of the TC & help wiggling it about. A couple of bits of threaded rod would do the job. A nut on each rod to lock against the bosses would help to make them rigid. I have done it that way, but I find it a PITA & best to ensure there are no small children or people of a sensitive nature within earshot!

Once fitted, lay a straight edge across the mouth of the bell housing.
Measure from the straightedge to the front of any of the four bosses on the engine side of the TC.
This MUST be as specified.
Ashcroft list on their site but I would suggest you consult the manual.
The ZF4HP22 as fitted to the Classic is 51mm but I think yours will be ZF4HP22/24EH & I don't know if they are different.
Ashcroft here: ZF4HP22/24EH - Ashcroft Transmissions (ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk)
If in any doubt & you can't get it elsewhere it might be worth giving them a ring.

There is nothing to stop the TC sliding off - which it will happily do just because it can! - & once fitted you will need to either be very careful or come up with a way of stopping it sliding forward. (Same applies when separating engine & box. After the 4 bolts that join the flexplate to the TC bosses are removed you need to stop the TC falling off as you separate engine & box)
 
Last edited:
Forgot to say, when you take the TC off keep it vertical.
If you lay it down with the open end lowest you'll be surprised just how much fluid there was remaining in the TC.
 
Ratae said:
You MUST install the TC on the gearbox & it MUST be fully seated.
If it isn't you will be able to bolt it all up to the engine but when you start the engine you will have no drive as you will have damaged the pump & will need to take it all off again & replace the pump.

The cut-out slots you can see on the tube on the gearbox side of the TC engage with & drive the pump.

TC can be a bit of a pig to get to seat when the box is laid on its side (normal as-fitted-to-engine orientation) as the splines on the gearbox input shafts need to line up & engage with the relevant ones inside the TC & it's difficult to hold & it's very heavy.
Last time I did mine (ZF4HP22 on the Classic - basically the same box) I finally got fed up fighting it & stood the box up vertically using an engine crane. TC went on easily.
If you do it horizontally LR show 'special tools' which are two straight handles. These screw into two of the four bosses on the engine side of the TC & help wiggling it about. A couple of bits of threaded rod would do the job. A nut on each rod to lock against the bosses would help to make them rigid. I have done it that way, but I find it a PITA & best to ensure there are no small children or people of a sensitive nature within earshot!

Once fitted, lay a straight edge across the mouth of the bell housing.
Measure from the straightedge to the front of any of the four bosses on the engine side of the TC.
This MUST be as specified.
Ashcroft list on their site but I would suggest you consult the manual.
The ZF4HP22 as fitted to the Classic is 51mm but I think yours will be ZF4HP22/24EH & I don't know if they are different.
Ashcroft here: ZF4HP22/24EH - Ashcroft Transmissions (ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk)
If in any doubt & you can't get it elsewhere it might be worth giving them a ring.

There is nothing to stop the TC sliding off - which it will happily do just because it can! - & once fitted you will need to either be very careful or come up with a way of stopping it sliding forward. (Same applies when separating engine & box. After the 4 bolts that join the flexplate to the TC bosses are removed you need to stop the TC falling off as you separate engine & box)
Click to expand...

If we take the transfer box off and put it on a pallet I reckon the gearbox will stand on its end with a couple of lumps of wood strategically nailed in place.

I knew someone had been here before!
 
I wonder if a couple of dry-walling ties might be fashioned into something to hold the torque converter in place? Mating the damn thing back up to the engine will be fun.
 
^^^^ :)
Couple of bits of threaded rod help refitting the transfer box with minimal risk to the seals.

On the bottom of my bellhousing is a small round inspection plate held on with 3 bolts.
I made a 'T' shaped piece of steel with a hole drilled in each part of the top of the 'T' to hold it in place with these bolts & the shaft of the 'T' up through the hole to hold the TC in place.
The Mk1 was made out of body thickness steel. The TC was heavy enough to bend it out of its way! The Mk2 was rather thicker!

And another couple of lengths of threaded rod into the back of the engine are a huge help refitting box to engine. Jack gearbox up, engage a couple of bellhousing holes onto the rods & it all slides up nicely. Works with manual boxes too.
FWIW over the years I made the adapter-to-jack plates for the gearbox & for the transfer box as per the LR manuals. Well worth the effort as you're not fighting with big heavy unbalanced lumps of metal.
 
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