P38 2.5DSE 96/97 Water pump

if you pull the wire off the sensor does the gauge still read something or is it dead

Timing mod

synchro said:

Timing mod

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It's not hot enough yet, check at 95 Deg, you may/will have to remove the fan but you're good at that now

synchro said:

Timing mod

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I would say needle should be 12 o'clock but ...

Nothing to worry about there.

synchro said:

Timing mod

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Modulation is too high, at that engine temperature it should be well below 50%

@synchro
Don't panic too much at the thought of removing your fan to get the coolent temp up higher and quicker. It's a fiddle to get the holding tools in there but once it's free you don't need to remove it completely, drop the blade into the lower fan shroud then use something, I used an 8" long 2"x1" piece of wood to wedge the top blades against the rad, stop it falling forward onto the rotating pullys.
Once you've got the modulation reading at 95 Deg, put it on here, don't refit the fan unless you need to use the car as you may need to run it up to temperature a few more times after adjusting the timing.
Mine took 1 1/2hr to get to 90deg with the fan on, think it was less than 15mins with it off, ambient was around 8 Deg iirc.
Timing adjustment to alter modulation is done either with a dial test indicator (dti) or (cough...another way).

I get up to 95-96 while moving so perhaps i can get the timing mod then. As long as converter aint locked and i give throttle i guess?

96 celsius whilst moving at 70-90kmh and -3 ambient. Hot in my head

so my modulation is to high, what would rhe symptoms be of this? I do have hotstart kit fixed and starts like a charm at hot engine now atleast.. But i read timing modulation does not matter while engine is running?
Or that it was 2 different timing modulations, one static and the fip electronic to fine adjust?

Chain is prob stretched and fip probably even seen better days but, could a timing modulation fix any other issues than just hot start issues?

Engine has to be idling(750rpm) and roughly 95 degs when taking the reading. I couldn't drive mine at the time so a bigger pita for me.
My symptoms were a lumpy idle and stalling when put into D or R, starting was ok though but mines a 2001 if that makes a difference? No hot start needed on mine, starts straight away hot or cold. My mod was (iirc) 87 at around 85 degrees, I couldn't get it any hotter until I removed the fan.
My modulation is now 48-52, I had to move my FIP 3/16" towards the engine block.

Get your modulation number at 90/95 degrees @750rpm and post it up.

synchro said:

I get up to 95-96 while moving so perhaps i can get the timing mod then. As long as converter aint locked and i give throttle i guess?

96 celsius whilst moving at 70-90kmh and -3 ambient. Hot in my head

so my modulation is to high, what would rhe symptoms be of this? I do have hotstart kit fixed and starts like a charm at hot engine now atleast.. But i read timing modulation does not matter while engine is running?
Or that it was 2 different timing modulations, one static and the fip electronic to fine adjust?

Chain is prob stretched and fip probably even seen better days but, could a timing modulation fix any other issues than just hot start issues?

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If the modulation is correct, you will not need the hot start mod. Modulation influences fuelling at all times. When I got the modulation spot on 50% at 95C, it not only started better, it would flatten the battery trying to hot start before, but it also felt sharper and fuel economy was marginally better. Maybe my imagination but I think the engine is quieter too.

Flossie said:

Get your modulation number at 90/95 degrees @750rpm and post it up.

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this is at 90.3 degrees idle

Once static timing was set my engine was quieter, more power, easier starting. Everything chimes in tidy

RangeRoller dt said:

Once static timing was set my engine was quieter, more power, easier starting. Everything chimes in tidy

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really sounds like we had/have same issue

synchro said:

this is at 90.3 degrees idle

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Too high but not as bad as mine was.
Your choice now, buy a DTI and the adaptor, not as expensive as you may think from my searching or do it for free using a rule.
For the free method you will need to remove everything necessary to remove the inlet manifold, adjust the FIP and reassemble everything again but only loosely then check modulation again, repeat until you are happy then bolt everything back up properly.
@Datatek divised the method, not me, but I've done it and it's easy.

synchro said:

really sounds like we had/have same issue

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Yes a 2.5 diesel

I've asked people in my region if they are able to help me with this.
I dont feel like i want to fiddle with my fip when someone who has done it before can do it for me easier.

Some things i just cant bother doing myself..
What should i pay for a job like this anyhow? I guess its 2-3 hours work? Maybe more if you've never done it before?

synchro said:

I get up to 95-96 while moving so perhaps i can get the timing mod then. As long as converter aint locked and i give throttle i guess?

96 celsius whilst moving at 70-90kmh and -3 ambient. Hot in my head

so my modulation is to high, what would rhe symptoms be of this? I do have hotstart kit fixed and starts like a charm at hot engine now atleast.. But i read timing modulation does not matter while engine is running?
Or that it was 2 different timing modulations, one static and the fip electronic to fine adjust?

Chain is prob stretched and fip probably even seen better days but, could a timing modulation fix any other issues than just hot start issues?

Click to expand...

Hard starting with hot is the first symptom. If yours is fine I'd leave it alone until it becomes a problem. If it goes really high it will start stalling as you lift off the throttle and after that it might jump a tooth and wreck the valves but that is rare.

synchro said:

I've asked people in my region if they are able to help me with this.
I dont feel like i want to fiddle with my fip when someone who has done it before can do it for me easier.

Some things i just cant bother doing myself..
What should i pay for a job like this anyhow? I guess its 2-3 hours work? Maybe more if you've never done it before?

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Its an easier job than the waterpump fiasco

Grrrrrr said:

Hard starting with hot is the first symptom. If yours is fine I'd leave it alone until it becomes a problem. If it goes really high it will start stalling as you lift off the throttle and after that it might jump a tooth and wreck the valves but that is rare.

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It has been hard started for over a year i think. Probably even two.

I fitted a hot start kit as a new owner. One of the first thing i did actually

But as @RangeRoller dt describes he had a lack of power and it was abit loud.
I have all that.

My car didnt vibrate at idle before when i got it. Then slowly, and slowly getting more, same with engine noise.
Sounds like a semitruck picking up speed, i guess people think there is a huge, huge engine inside the car because its that noisy, bur its just the little cute teddybear M51

+1 you have more immediate issues than fine tuning the static.