Am I being daft getting a freelander?

I am sure you all love your freelanders but I am hoping for some impartial advice
I currently have 320d estate. In fact I think it has the same engine as the freelander1 td4 (M47)?

The trouble is, I am now doing a lot of driving round rough rural lanes and tracks and the bmw on it's 18" alloys can't really hack it so I need to replace it with something more suitable. A possible issue is that this also needs to do general family car duties which includes 500 mile round trips to visit offspring.
So my ideal vehicle would be good for cruising on the motorway, fun to drive round country lanes but also capable of light off roading.
I have also been trying to persuade my wife that I don't need to spend £10k+ to get a reliable car (I generally buy cars in the £1k to £3k range). She thinks new=reliable. I think new=complex, expensive to fix and unrealiable! So I cannot buy something that will prove me wrong here
Anyway, I am starting to think a freelander might fit the bill.

Any advice before I dive in?
I realise I might not get toyota reliablity but I get the impression they are fairly ok, as long as the 4wd system is looked after? Or am I setting myself to being under the car every other weekend?
Is there a preference for manual or auto? I have only ever had one auto (a saab 9-5) and hated it as it was never in the gear I wanted. Would an auto freelander be similarly frustrating to me? I get the impression auto might make things a bit easier on the rough stuff though?

Don't worry... our very own @Hippo will be along soon enough to make you think that you're making the right decision.

My penny-worth:
First up there is this link here which offers a guide as to possible repurchase test you could explore. There are other posts on here about just what to look for - they make for interesting reading.
The diesels seem to be the pick of the FL1 although I enjoy my K series 1.8! The earlier L series only has a 5 sp'd manual g'box. The motor is excellent but it's no sports car! Good to tow with. The later BMW sourced M47 motor has more performance and the best economy but requires more careful maintenance... It is available in 5 speed manual [less common] OR an auto box. So for me a later one with that nice M47 diesel and an auto would the one I'd be looking for.

4WD - Yes this needs to be carefully looked at. Absolute key point; are the tyres a matched set? same size - type - brand, and inflation. Look for odd / uneven tyre wear patterns esp' on the front. Prop-shaft still in place? Many have been removed due to a stiff VCU and / or a known damaged IRD. There are some simple tests you could do to gain an idea on the health/servicability of the VCU and IRD. #1 drive it! On a large open area, could be a carpark of field... in first gear with the engine on idle and the steering on full lock [left and then right] you should be able to idle around in a circle/s. Repeat in reverse. No throttle should be needed. If it feels as if the H'brake is on and/or you need to use the throttle to get it and keep it moving [ ie: it feels as if the brakes are binding a bit] then the VCU may have stiffened up and be near / at the end of its life. Leaving like this can / will destroy your IRD and possibly the diff' too. On a sealed surface it should not jump or skip about as you turn - that points to transmission wind-up = not good.
#2 In a driveway do the One Wheel Up Test [OWUT] there's a demo on YouTube. a time of about 30 sec' or less is good = VCU is good. Getting nearer to a minute = not so good, a minute + bad. Replace/ remove VCU. OWUT Link You will need: 1.2m bar, a 5kg weight. ideally use a 32mm socket on the hub nut [ check that size!] and connect the bar to that. Time it from the 45º to horizontal.

I hope that helps. There are many posts and threads on here which are useful. Good luck on your hunt.

Swap the word freelander to the words Land Rover in your original question and the answer to the question is yes
The sensible answer is do what your wife wants, then when it goes wrong it’s not your fault!

There are low mileage ones in very good condition that come up every now and then. In my book, they are great value for money.

Fella on a forum over here has just scored himself a 2006 TD4 auto Sport with less than 70k miles on the clock and almost spotless inside and out.

Think he paid about £3K for it.

At that price, its a super value for money vehicle. Even with that car though, it can be difficult to get a good idea of the VCU's condition prior to purchase, so you should always budget on a recon the VCU (< £300) and new tyres if they are not all matching.

My Freelander that I've had for 10 years is boringly reliable and when stuff does go wrong, parts are readily available and cheap.

The rear luggage space could do with being bigger - but then the rear leg room is generous, so I suppose you can't have it both ways.

Above advice is great. I would say though that MPG in the autos around town looks to be pretty poor. The clutches on the TD4 don't last long and aren't cheap to replace with a silly (more modern?) clutch slave that needs the box to come off to replace. Overall I'd agree the TD4 auto is the one to go for, especially given the type of driving you say you do. But hold out for 1 that is in really good condition.

Generally speaking these 1k-3k cars can be anything in terms of reliability. Freelanders are now in the bottom of their value and it is very typical that owners neglect every maintenance and fix if possible. If you find one that has been cared and serviced well despite its age and low value, it probably will be wonderful car. If this will be your drive anywhere car and the only car, you most likely have to do a larger project to fix things and then keep the maintenance going to keep the car going. That is also the way to learn the car and know what needs or propably will need work in the future. And I wouldn't buy these if I couldn’t do most of the repairs by myself.

Yes they are reliable if you keep them serviced, will munch up the miles, change the oil twice a year irrespective of how many miles you do, make sure the starter motor as had the contacts changed and it's plunger, £14 for parts and 40 minutes work which you could do your self, give it a good service changing oil, air, PCV, fuel and pollen filters, also get a fuel pump to keep just in case it's ever needed, pierburg fuel filter no other.

I would have the manifold EGR and MAP cleaned or do it myself, this is as soon as you purchase the car, the rest as already been stated,

Five door is best in my opinion HSE make sure all the tyres are the same make, and have the same tread, including the spare,

Thanks everyone, some great info there. I have read the thread on things to watch for and understand the issues with tyres and the VCU etc. I have read similar on other marques, eg rav4 with a VCU but I get the impression the freelander might be typically set a bit tighter on the VCU so more like to suffer with mismatched tyres etc? I have also driven a 100k mile CRV which showed tyre scrub and groaning from the back on tight corners. Although that is apparently more likely down to the need for an oil change as it has a dual pump system rather than a VCD.

I think finding one in good condition is what worries me. Especially (as GrumpyGel said) I might well miss something like the VCU being on the way out. Plus the chances of finding a 15 year old car with perfectly matched tyres sounds a bit of a pipe dream
I have seen a couple locally in my price range. Both were what I would describe as neglected old dogs tarted up. I get the impression that round here (home counties) they are generally either used for the school run (so the owner doesn't know/care how to look after it) or used to carry bales of hay round the pony paddock or tow the horse box (so owner doesn't care they are wrecking it, they can afford to replace it when it dies). Maybe that is just a poor impression based on a couple of bad examples and I just need to keep looking.
Given all that though I have been half tempted to buy something cheap in the assumption that it will need fixing. I am capable of doing my own work but am getting lazy in my old age so more time consuming or complex stuff I would rather not get into. So brakes, suspension or changing out a rear diff or VCU etc not a problem but it would have to be a really good car otherwise to bother to change a clutch or do significant engine work. A head gasket on a k-series would make me grumpy but I would probably get it sorted if the car was otherwise ok.

I should also say we have two other vehicles, one being a van, so my car being off the road for a week or so is not a huge deal. Other than it would be seen by my wife as a reason to say "told you so!".

Anyway, enough rambling. It sounds like I need to try a auto to see if I get on with it. How reliable are the autos? I get that there is no clutch to wear out but a clutch is generally cheaper/easier than fixing an auto box?

archman said:

I get that there is no clutch to wear out but a clutch is generally cheaper/easier than fixing an auto box?

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Funny you should say that. There's been a couple of threads lately of clutches wearing out - in the auto boxes!

I guess it will all come down to the condition of the car you buy. We bought a freelander 1 13 years ago with 70 000km on clock. This year it reached 340 000 and still in a reasonably good condition, without serious troubles. Very reliable, parts are quite cheap, and the car is also pretty simple. Of course, freelander will not run as fast as your 320d, it will also be quite noisier on inside, but apart from that - great wheels.

Sounds like I need to read up on auto box issues

blaster1232 said:

I guess it will all come down to the condition of the car you buy. We bought a freelander 1 13 years ago with 70 000km on clock. This year it reached 340 000 and still in a reasonably good condition, without serious troubles. Very reliable, parts are quite cheap, and the car is also pretty simple. Of course, freelander will not run as fast as your 320d, it will also be quite noisier on inside, but apart from that - great wheels.

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I think that is my challange - finding a car that is still well looked after and in decent condition. Keeping it that way is not a problem if I like the car.
As you say, it will be a very different vehicle to my 320d and until recently I would not have considered it. Until now I have always prefered decent performance cars. But recently I did a 500 mile trip in my van (Fiat scudo mk1) which is not exactly fast and not exactly quiet and comfortable but I realised I quite enjoyed it. The van is slow and rolls a lot on corners but there was something relaxing about taking it easy but also not having to worry about avoiding every pothole or whether I would damaged something by driving half up a bank to get round someone on a country lane.
The 320d is not exactly fast by modern standards (or compared to previous cars I have owned) but, even so, to get anywhere near its limits on a public road would see me losing my license pretty fast. In fact most of the roads round here have 40 or 50mph limits. And that includes some of the motorways! So what is the point?
Maybe I am also getting old....

Getting back to the freelander, is there much difference in refinement between the FL1 and FL2? Somehow I like the idea of the FL1 more on the assumption that it is smaller and less complex (so less to go wrong?). Or is that likely to be offset by the age of any FL1 vs the more modern FL2?

oh, and picking up on this....

Arctic2 said:

Yes they are reliable if you keep them serviced, will munch up the miles, change the oil twice a year irrespective of how many miles you do, make sure the starter motor as had the contacts changed and it's plunger, £14 for parts and 40 minutes work which you could do your self, give it a good service changing oil, air, PCV, fuel and pollen filters, also get a fuel pump to keep just in case it's ever needed, pierburg fuel filter no other.

I would have the manifold EGR and MAP cleaned or do it myself, this is as soon as you purchase the car, the rest as already been stated,

Five door is best in my opinion HSE make sure all the tyres are the same make, and have the same tread, including the spare,

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Is this for the FL1? Is the egr/map something specific to the freelander or just the usual old diesel getting clogged up type of thing?
Actually, on this subject, a couple of common issues on the M47 320d (which I had on mine) are the glow plug control module failing and the secondary thermostat (supplies the EGR) sticking open. The former causing clouds of smoke on cold mornings, the latter causing the engine to run rich and smokey most of the time. Does this also occur on the TD4?

archman said:

Sounds like I need to read up on auto box issues

I think that is my challange - finding a car that is still well looked after and in decent condition. Keeping it that way is not a problem if I like the car.
As you say, it will be a very different vehicle to my 320d and until recently I would not have considered it. Until now I have always prefered decent performance cars. But recently I did a 500 mile trip in my van (Fiat scudo mk1) which is not exactly fast and not exactly quiet and comfortable but I realised I quite enjoyed it. The van is slow and rolls a lot on corners but there was something relaxing about taking it easy but also not having to worry about avoiding every pothole or whether I would damaged something by driving half up a bank to get round someone on a country lane.
The 320d is not exactly fast by modern standards (or compared to previous cars I have owned) but, even so, to get anywhere near its limits on a public road would see me losing my license pretty fast. In fact most of the roads round here have 40 or 50mph limits. And that includes some of the motorways! So what is the point?
Maybe I am also getting old....

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lol, I used to pile around the UK and the odd venture onto the continent - always keeping below speeds I'd lose my license for! Only ever got 1 speeding ticket to.

Shifted over here, petrol was cheep, got myself a V8... and started collecting speeding tickets like confetti. I soon adjusted to the 100kmh (60mph) limits and completed the nana conversion when I got the L Series Freelander I get beat off the lights by 18 wheelers and invalid carriages these days. Once its moving though, I enjoy driving it. Even got another speeding ticket last week. ffs.

We regularly do 4 to 6 hour trips in the Freelander and its fine comfort wise. Tows the boat and our glamping kit fine doing those trips to.

Freelander 1 or Freelander 2? The FL2 has the reputation as being the most reliable car Land Rover ever made...

I bought my FL1 right at the bottom of the price range. £275 as "Spares or Repairs" off the bay of fleas. It's a 1.8 K-series so of course the head gasket had gone (and not for the first time, as at least one of the replacements was a total bodge). I didn't care. I bought it as a project and have loved every minute of owning it and fixing it. In fact I have enjoyed the car far more than I ever thought I would. The light off-roading just takes the ownership experience to another level. And of course, there is the sheer level of ownership camaraderie that LandyZone and other owner forums display in abundance.

There's a certain YouTuber (4xOverland) who says never to buy a Land Rover. Because you'll fall in love with it. He's right. You will.

The FL1 is nowhere near as slick as your E46 and won't be as much fun to drive on the twisties. But it will be a completely different experience that you will grow into. The 5-door is an amazingly roomy (for passengers) and practical car. The boot space isn't that great - but you know that.

Reliability? Generally not bad I would say. The big potential time bomb is the VCU, but you are already familiar with this. Listen out for drivetrain knocks and groans. On a test drive, go in forwards and reverse with full lock in both direction. Some resistance - as though the hand-brake is partially on - is to be expected, but a car that practically comes to a halt at tick-over speeds probably indicates a seizing VCU. If you can, perform the "One-wheel-up test" that you'll have read about - that is probably the most useful test you can do.

Other stuff is generally minor, easily fixable and not too expensive IMO.

But give both the FL1 and FL2 some thought - although the latter will be rather more expensive than the earlier car.

Good luck!

GrumpyGel said:

lol, I used to pile around the UK and the odd venture onto the continent - always keeping below speeds I'd lose my license for! Only ever got 1 speeding ticket to.

Shifted over here, petrol was cheep, got myself a V8... and started collecting speeding tickets like confetti. I soon adjusted to the 100kmh (60mph) limits and completed the nana conversion when I got the L Series Freelander I get beat off the lights by 18 wheelers and invalid carriages these days. Once its moving though, I enjoy driving it. Even got another speeding ticket last week. ffs.

We regularly do 4 to 6 hour trips in the Freelander and its fine comfort wise. Tows the boat and our glamping kit fine doing those trips to.

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That sounds promising for the freelander 1 comfort wise.
As I am still learning, the L-series? That is the diesel before the bmw engined TD4? Am I correct?

rob_bell said:

Freelander 1 or Freelander 2? The FL2 has the reputation as being the most reliable car Land Rover ever made...

I bought my FL1 right at the bottom of the price range. £275 as "Spares or Repairs" off the bay of fleas. It's a 1.8 K-series so of course the head gasket had gone (and not for the first time, as at least one of the replacements was a total bodge). I didn't care. I bought it as a project and have loved every minute of owning it and fixing it. In fact I have enjoyed the car far more than I ever thought I would. The light off-roading just takes the ownership experience to another level. And of course, there is the sheer level of ownership camaraderie that LandyZone and other owner forums display in abundance.

There's a certain YouTuber (4xOverland) who says never to buy a Land Rover. Because you'll fall in love with it. He's right. You will.

The FL1 is nowhere near as slick as your E46 and won't be as much fun to drive on the twisties. But it will be a completely different experience that you will grow into. The 5-door is an amazingly roomy (for passengers) and practical car. The boot space isn't that great - but you know that.

Reliability? Generally not bad I would say. The big potential time bomb is the VCU, but you are already familiar with this. Listen out for drivetrain knocks and groans. On a test drive, go in forwards and reverse with full lock in both direction. Some resistance - as though the hand-brake is partially on - is to be expected, but a car that practically comes to a halt at tick-over speeds probably indicates a seizing VCU. If you can, perform the "One-wheel-up test" that you'll have read about - that is probably the most useful test you can do.

Other stuff is generally minor, easily fixable and not too expensive IMO.

But give both the FL1 and FL2 some thought - although the latter will be rather more expensive than the earlier car.

Good luck!

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Thanks, I suspect the days of usable cars for a few hundred pounds are well gone though
Out of interest, is the head gasket a reasonable job in the freelander? I am not thinking so much the job itself (I know roughly what it involves), more access when in situ, that sort of thing?
I have to admit a broken VCU does not worry me, sounds like a reasonably easy job plus I always budget at least £500 for unexpected issues when buying a car. I guess it would become more of an issue if a locked up VCU then caused damage elsewhere, eg diff, IRD? Is this likely and, if so, how easy would this further damage be to detect?

archman said:

Getting back to the freelander, is there much difference in refinement between the FL1 and FL2? Somehow I like the idea of the FL1 more on the assumption that it is smaller and less complex (so less to go wrong?). Or is that likely to be offset by the age of any FL1 vs the more modern FL2?

Click to expand...

Completely different vehicles in terms of refinement. I replaced my original 1.8L FL1 with a FL2, and the difference was night and day. Much quieter, more comfort, and felt much better as a daily driver. But... after a few years of ownership I did start to suffer from a number of out of warranty gremlins, that were quite costly to fix, and eventually got rid. That said though, it was a fantastic vehicle.

A few years on, and I returned to the Freelander fray, and bought a diesel 3-door FL1. Ok, it lacks the refinement of the FL2. But it's been great fun to drive again. And as others have said, there is something about these vehicles. And with the 3-door, you can take the roof off for summer drives.

Whichever one you go for, I'm sure you will like.

I've always hated 3 door cars. Bigger doors mean they will not open properly in a car park, so difficult to get in. Even worse getting into the back. Oh, and I don't like the sun. Bah humbug!
Looks like a 5 door for me then

archman said:

I've always hated 3 door cars. Bigger doors mean they will not open properly in a car park, so difficult to get in. Even worse getting into the back. Oh, and I don't like the sun. Bah humbug!

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Furry muff. We're all different.