Disco 2 No accelerator for 15 seconds after starting from cold

Morning All,
Help and suggestions with a starting problem would be most welcome.
Disco 2, 15P TD5 rebuilt by Turner Engineering 10,000 miles ago (by previous owner, no idea why).

In the morning the engine starts fine but the accelerator does not work for around 15 seconds. Once it starts working all is well for the rest of the day - even after several hours not running.

1) ECU has been tested by ATP Electronics and is not faulty. No oil is leaking from the loom into the ECU plug.
2) Accelerator has been changed for a known good one and this has not cured the problem.
3) Local garage has read fault codes which suggest possible electrical problem (I don't know the fault codes). They have scoped all the sensors and found no problem.
4 )Local garage suspected a problem with the low pressure fuel pump (in the tank), rigged up a temporary fuel system bypassing the tank and pump but no improvements.
5) They now suspect diesel draining our of warn injectors which needs replacing before the engine will accelerate. This will involve injector testing -expensive, so I've retrieved the car and am investigating myself, hopefully with the help of the expertise here. (I don't know if diesel is dripping into the oil sump - I need to drive the car to test this.)
6) My Hawkeye gives the following faults:
3129 - roads speed missing
3149 - noisy crank signal

Many thanks,

Bertie

I could add that when starting from cold the engine often runs for a few seconds then stops. After a restart it again runs then stops, or ticks over slowly.

Also, when running (and car stationary) tickover is reasonable smooth but as the engine speed is increased it get very lumpy around 1,400rpm to 1,600rpm. Smooths out faster than that.

Hi. Next time on cold start just turn ignition on 2 push the throttle 5 times, the MIL will start flashing, wait untill it stops(2-3 minutes) then start the engine and see how it behaves, if then it's OK you'll have to change the injector copper washers, maybe would be a good ideea to replace the air bleed valve in the rear outer port of the fuel filter head... if the symptom is the same after the purge trick you should check the connector on the crank sensor to not be dirty or loosen pins

Hi slerrafery, I'll try that in the morning. Many thanks for the suggestions.

Also try unplugging the MAF sensor.

Hello, many thanks for all your suggestions.
Yesterday I purged the fuel system as suggested by sierrafery and the accelerator worked almost immediately, but the engine ran roughly for a few mins. Some success ion tracing the fault? This morning however, again after purging, it was back to normal - no accelerator for approx 15 seconds. I'll try again over the next few mornings.
I will also try unplugging then MAF sensor as suggested by bankz5152. I have a second Discovery 2 which leaks water into the cylinders somehow, I will try fitting the MAF sensor from this into the engione I'm working on - wouldm a straight swap be OK or does anything have to be reset?
A new crank sensor is on its way so I will try fitting that when it arrives.
Thanks again,
Bertie

Bertie Wooster said:

A new crank sensor is on its way so I will try fitting that when it arrives.

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.....but in the meanwhile why not try cleaning it, and checking it is fitted properly etc?

Why not indeed I'll look at it in the morning. Thanks for the suggestion.

The MAF is straight swap, at this throttle delay problem unplugging it will not rule it out cos if it's faulty or unplugged there will be a few seconds delay untill the ECU goes to default so it can be faulty but you can rule it out only by swapping it with a known good one. If after the purge it behaved the same it's not the copper washers

Bertie Wooster said:

Why not indeed I'll look at it in the morning. Thanks for the suggestion.

Click to expand...

Only reminding you wot Sierrafery said you should try if the purge didn't work.
Have had this problem on other cars and cleaning the crank sensor worked then.

Hello, have managed to get back to this troublesome engine - no accelerator for 15 seconds or so after being left overnight, and engine runs roughly - especially around 1500rpm.

1) Swapping the MAF sensor for a known good one made no difference.
2) Fitting a new crank sensor made no difference. The old one had no o-ring fitted, hopefully no permanent damage done. Also, the new one was very slightly longer than the old one so I fitted a spacer. I hope this was correct.
3) Running the engine for a short time (not driving anywhere) gives no error faults.
4) After not running for an hour the accelerator does not work for a few seconds - this may be new and could suggest things are geting worse.
5) Diesel may be diluting the oil. Level is higher than max but the oil has just been changed by someone else and I don't know what level it was filled to. But I'm surprised it's as high as it is.
6) I have not yet fitted an new air bled valve as suggested by sierrafery - one is on order.
7) A local garage who scoped the sensors, and found no problems, thinks the injectors may be warn. Looking elsewhere on this forum it seems people think injectors should last longer than the 95,000 miles these have done. What do you think about me getting them tested - £25 each by Merlin Diesels?
8) The injector rocker clearances are incorrect - I believe the adjusters should be released one complete turn after bottoming out - these have been release TWO complete turns. What difference do you think this could make?

Whew ..... If you've got to the end many thanks for reading all this.

Cheers, and many thanks to everyone who has made suggestions.

Bertie

In this case replace the injector washers and o-rings then make sure the timing is spot on before you test the injectors

Hi sierafery, thanks for your speedy reply. I can certainly change the o-rings and copper washers but I'm unsure about the injector timing. Is that the timing chain? I can line the sprocket mark between the two coloured links in the timing chain but can't see the crankshaft sprocket marks without removing the cover.

It is all to easy to overfill the TD5 with oil.
You need the patience of a saint to wait for it all to move down through the engine when topping it up, or else you have to drive it to get the engine oil warm.
Then read the oil level before topping up again, but both me and my mate have overfilled ours due to impatience!
But yes, if it smells of diesel you may well have seal problems.

Ah, could be a red herring then. It wasn't me who filled it so I don't really know, and the oil doesn't seem to smell of diesel.

Bertie Wooster said:

Ah, could be a red herring then. It wasn't me who filled it so I don't really know, and the oil doesn't seem to smell of diesel.

Click to expand...

Obviously the only way to be sure is to either get the oil tested, or drive around with it, when you can, as it is and see if it rises.
You could stick some thin plastic tubing, like that used for windscreen washer tubing replacement, down the dipstick tube, and syphon some of the oil out. It takes a while but is easier than trying to remove the sump plug, letting a load fall out then shoving the plug back in "against the flow" as it were. That is IF you can get the sump plug undone. I can't so I always pump all the oil out through this orifice and then replace it when doing an oil change.
TBH I'd just leave it and watch it. A slightly high oil level won't harm it.

Now that's a good idea - I'm sure I have narrow tube lying around somewhere. For now, I think I'll remove the injectors and replace the copper washers and 0-rings and see if that helps with the engine running. If not, I'll probably have the injectors tested then at least I'll know that the problem is elsewhere if they test OK.
Many thanks to all.

Mmmmm , it seems that no accelerator when starting may be the least of my problems.
I'm part way through removing the injectors and have found that the rollers on four of the five injector rockers are completely seized and now have flat sections warn in them. The corresponding cams on the cam also have significant wear. I shall have to investigate whether rockers (or the rollers) are available and I'd say I'll also have to try and find a new camshaft.
Does anyone know if rockers and the camshaft from a 10P engine head would fit this 15P engine? I have a 10P engine with a coolant leak into a cylinder which after two new head gaskets I've given up on, there's possible a crack in the block somewhere. Thew roickers and camshaft should be fine.
This engine with the seized rollers was rebuilt by Turner Engineering 10,000 miles ago for the previous owner. Unless the previous owner ran out of oil then I'm very unimpressed with Turner!

No good news!
I believe that my engine has been run without oil!. Injector cam followers are siezed solid and warn flat. Camshaft injector cams are very grooved and the bearings are a real mess. This means a new head, rocker assembly and camshaft and no reason that I know of for this problem.
I've had a couple of very helpful chats with Turner (who rebuilt the engine 10,000 miles ago) and they say it was supplied by them without camshaft or rocker assembly, so I don't think it was anything to do with them. Interestingly they say they supplied the same garage who fitted the reconditioned engine with a new camshaft and rocker assembly a year after supplying the engine. This suggests that the reason for the first rebuild had not been rectified and continued to cause grief. And now it's probably written off the engine - I'm reluctant to spend probably £3000 on spares and not be certain that the engine will be good.
Any suggestions on a source for a good, working TD5 engine?
Thanks,
Bertie

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HTH,
Griff