Freelander 1 Freelander EV

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rob_bell said:
That is prohibitive for most enthusiasts for any vehicle other than exotics.

hopefully the price will come down in time and with volumes - but I think it’ll come through adaptation of second hand salvaged EV parts on the first instance.
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What is quite interesting, is the price of salvaged EVs seems to be climbing. The more popular EVs became, the more popular converting older cars to electric seems to be getting. This is helping to push the prices up of old or damaged EVs.
In fact EV prices are climbing all round, which isn't very helpful, as the motor/inverters and batteries are going up an value too. :(
 
The cost of batteries is the main thing to worry about. Hybrid motor/inverters are more than enough to use in most conversions.
Although if you are not in a rush and have the cash ready to go you can find some pretty good prices. There were 40kWh leaf packs going for around £3k a month or so back.
I'm might also look into importing batteries from America. The prices over there are crazy low compared to the UK at least.
 
The cost of professional conversions is still prohibitively expensive so it will be fun to achieve my goal of a complete conversion for under £5k :) The value of the donor car is completely irrelevant so if I can do it on a worthless Freelander for £5k then it could be done to a valuable classic for the same money.
What the range will be for that money is another matter though. :confused:
I have enough lead acid batteries to use for testing but still haven't decided what batteries to use for my conversion. To be honest I've been putting off purchasing until I really have to which may prove to be a mistake but I'm so busy with work at the minute I'm not spending much time on the conversion.
I did manage to spent a bit of time the other day shaping the adapter plate so it does look a bit better now.

This is it on the gearbox.
IMG_20201123_221126683_HDR.jpg IMG_20201123_221134366.jpg IMG_20201123_221140959.jpg IMG_20201123_221149162.jpg

I deliberately cut it about 5mm too big all round as I knew it would need a little trimming because as they say "Your better looking at it than for it" and the notch around the IRD needs trimming but the shape is pretty close. I'll need to bolt on the IRD to confirm the location 100% but I think it will be OK.
 
Alibro said:
The cost of professional conversions is still prohibitively expensive so it will be fun to achieve my goal of a complete conversion for under £5k :) The value of the donor car is completely irrelevant so if I can do it on a worthless Freelander for £5k then it could be done to a valuable classic for the same money.
What the range will be for that money is another matter though. :confused:
I have enough lead acid batteries to use for testing but still haven't decided what batteries to use for my conversion. To be honest I've been putting off purchasing until I really have to which may prove to be a mistake but I'm so busy with work at the minute I'm not spending much time on the conversion.
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I absolutely agree that EV conversion companies are charging way to much, effectively limiting this kind of conversion to the super rich, where they are converting prestige vehicles.

I see nothing wrong with a DIY budget EV conversion, as long as it is done sensibly and methodically, there won't be an issue.
Range (or lack of) is potentially the most important issue with any EV conversion, not just for the DIYer, but also for the professionally done conversions.
Many conventional ICE engine cars simply don't have the space for the batteries, unless extensive body modifications are done. This is one area that the FL1 is at an advantage, as there's plenty of "wasted space" in it's design, which can be utilised with only minor modifications to the body.

Batteries is an interesting, complex and likely expensive issue.
There are a few battery chemistry options available, each with benefits and drawbacks.

Lead Acid (Pb) for instance is has quite a few benefits, but just as many drawbacks, which means it's not ideal for a long term power option, however I believe Pb to be an ideal concept testind power source, simply because it's easy and relatively cheap to use.

Then there are the Lithium based batteries, which are best as long term power source. There are a few different types of Lithium battery, again all having benefits and drawbacks, but the main drawback with all Lithium battery technologies is cost.

Alibro said:
I deliberately cut it about 5mm too big all round as I knew it would need a little trimming because as they say "Your better looking at it than for it" and the notch around the IRD needs trimming but the shape is pretty close. I'll need to bolt on the IRD to confirm the location 100% but I think it will be OK
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Looks to be coming on just fine Ali.
You'll be needing that coupler soon I can see. ;)
 
Jayridium said:
That's looking good Ali - what did you use to shape it?
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Believe it or not a 9" grinder with a stainless steel cutting disk, then rounded off the sharp bits with a flap disk.
TBH I wish I'd used the big grinder from the start instead of the circular saw as the disks are a fraction of the cost and I ruined my evolution disk. :oops:
 
Nodge68 said:
I absolutely agree that EV conversion companies are charging way to much, effectively limiting this kind of conversion to the super rich, where they are converting prestige vehicles.

I see nothing wrong with a DIY budget EV conversion, as long as it is done sensibly and methodically, there won't be an issue.
Range (or lack of) is potentially the most important issue with any EV conversion, not just for the DIYer, but also for the professionally done conversions.
Many conventional ICE engine cars simply don't have the space for the batteries, unless extensive body modifications are done. This is one area that the FL1 is at an advantage, as there's plenty of "wasted space" in it's design, which can be utilised with only minor modifications to the body.

Batteries is an interesting, complex and likely expensive issue.
There are a few battery chemistry options available, each with benefits and drawbacks.

Lead Acid (Pb) for instance is has quite a few benefits, but just as many drawbacks, which means it's not ideal for a long term power option, however I believe Pb to be an ideal concept testind power source, simply because it's easy and relatively cheap to use.

Then there are the Lithium based batteries, which are best as long term power source. There are a few different types of Lithium battery, again all having benefits and drawbacks, but the main drawback with all Lithium battery technologies is cost.



Looks to be coming on just fine Ali.
You'll be needing that coupler soon I can see. ;)
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Don't be rushing the coupler at the expense of your own projects John. I'm working 6 days a week atm so I don't have much time to work on it anyway.
 
I think there may be an opportunity to get a PHEV as a donor, you'll get a battery, controller and motor, OK lower spec but sometimes unused and the PHEVs are much cheaper then EVs. I;ve not looked inot it in detail but it could be possible to run 2 PHEV batteries. A lot of the PHEVs seem to have a flat battery pack under the floor pan so there may be an issue with the form factor.
I just come of a webinar on EVs and the guy responsible for this was on it:
https://www.braintreeandwithamtimes...braintree-electric-forecourt-open-later-year/
Very interesting, they are planning 100 across the UK and looking at putting a drone hub on the roof to do parcel delivery.
Thing could move very quickly in the next couple of years.
 
Nodge68 said:
I'm thinking you could probably use lots of those Pb batteries for testing Ali. ;)
Another Late Brake EV video, which is pretty interesting.
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I have 50 or 60 of them so enough to drive it a short distance but I'm seriously considering the pack I listed above. I know it is a little bit degraded but it's a 30kWh pack for just over £3k. It would keep me very close to the £5k total I've been aiming for and should provide a very useable 100 mile range.
 
If you've got a load of old lead acid cells then my experiment might interest you.

My Ford Pop is 6volt and I bought a new battery a few years back and through lack of use it takes charge but won't deliver starter current. I have ordered some 'fix it' pills to drop in the acid to hopefully desulphate the plates.

If they work I'll post details and results.
 
Alibro said:
I have 50 or 60 of them so enough to drive it a short distance but I'm seriously considering the pack I listed above.
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That's the way I'd be testing the concept myself. ;)
Alibro said:
I know it is a little bit degraded but it's a 30kWh pack for just over £3k. It would keep me very close to the £5k total I've been aiming for and should provide a very useable 100 mile range.
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It's a bit spendy Ali, but it'll do what you need.
How much would 30kWh of new 18650s cost?

It's such a pain that batteries are so expensive over here. In the US, used Lithium batteries are much cheaper.
 
Nodge68 said:
That's the way I'd be testing the concept myself. ;)

It's a bit spendy Ali, but it'll do what you need.
How much would 30kWh of new 18650s cost?

It's such a pain that batteries are so expensive over here. In the US, used Lithium batteries are much cheaper.
Click to expand...

I worked out a few months ago that to get 80kW I would need 200A to 270A from the 96S pack (depending on the charge level of the pack)
The cells need to be high power to handle the current and so will be lower Wh, therefore I will need more of them to make 30kWh which I see as the minimum needed for a reasonable range in a Freelander.
To get the Leaf 80kw power with at least 30kWh I'd need 96S x 10P cells but preferably 96S x 12P or more using the cells below.
I can get Samsung INR21700-30T 3000mAh-35A from here https://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/li-ion/21700-20700-size/samsung-inr21700-30t-3000mah-35a.html
They are 2.61 Euro each so the cost of the cells would be from around 2.5k Euro plus carriage plus the cost of building the pack and the time to do so.

There advantages and disadvantages to each method
The Leaf cells are designed for the job so no one will question them.
They are much bigger and fewer of them so many fewer connections.
Buying a complete Leaf pack will include the BMS, precharge resistor and all connections although it will need to be reconfigured and the wiring will need remade to the correct length.

Because they are bigger it is harder to make them fit into small spaces.
Adding a few more kWh is much easier with smaller cells which would also help with heat dissipation.
A custom built battery could be made to fit the available space.

I still haven't decided which way to go. :confused:
 
I'd hate to be making the 96s balance charger to charge all those cells....

The leaf pack would have all this built in I presume, the cost of all the electronics to look after 96s could be outrageous.
 
My maths was a bit off in my previous post as I was mixing up Ah and Wh. :eek: :oops: and I'd forgotten the tesla have over 8000 cells in some of their packs.
If a cell can give 3000mAh from full to empty that works out around 11Wh using 3.6V as the average voltage, that means 960 cells would be around 10kWh so I would need 2880 of the cells above to build a 30kWh pack which would cost 7517 Euro or approx £6750.
The exact Wh in these calculations will change if we use a higher capacity cell with a lower max discharge amps. We can do that if there are enough cells in parallel to cope with the potential 250ish amps but the sums still don't work out and the work involved in connecting so many cells doesn't appeal.
I think I'll be buying a Leaf pack or similar.
 
jedi said:
I'd hate to be making the 96s balance charger to charge all those cells....

The leaf pack would have all this built in I presume, the cost of all the electronics to look after 96s could be outrageous.
Click to expand...
Yes the Leaf pack has the BMS built in but it still has 96 connections as it has 48 modules and each module is two cells.
 
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