No rear wheel drive

Hi everyone, my name is Ryan and I have just bought a 2004 freelander td4. I took out just now up the farm to go feed and got stuck in mud. I was under the impression that the landy is constant 4 wd. Front wheels were spinning traction control light flicking on and off due to wheel spin but I had no drive from the rear wheels. Just wondering if I am doing something wrong or if there is an issue with 4wd. Was told when I bought it it was working fine. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Have you looked under the car? There should be a big long spinny thing going back to front.
If it's there then your IRD (The bit at the front that makes it 4WD) is stuffed or the VCU (the bit in the middle that is supposed to allow a little slip front to rear but locks up under pressure)

Hi yes I have checked and the prop shaft is there and connected.

I had the service history dropped off by a friend earlier and In 2015 is had a recon VCU and IRD.

just wondering if there are any tests I can do to find out what the cause is?

could it be a rear diff or is it normally VCU and IRD failure that causes this?

thanks

ryan

bevan83 said:

Hi yes I have checked and the prop shaft is there and connected.

I had the service history dropped off by a friend earlier and In 2015 is had a recon VCU and IRD.

just wondering if there are any tests I can do to find out what the cause is?

could it be a rear diff or is it normally VCU and IRD failure that causes this?

thanks

ryan

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I guess the first thing to try is to jack up one side so both wheels off the ground, manually turn the front wheel and watch to see what happens. You should see the propshaft turning and the rear wheel turning, this will confirm something is working.
It's possible the wheel on the other side of the car was spinning and you couldn't see it. It can be claimed they are two wheel drive on very soft ground (one front and one rear) as they have open diffs but from experience in soft ground you normally see all four wheels spinning.

Alibro said:

I guess the first thing to try is to jack up one side so both wheels off the ground, manually turn the front wheel and watch to see what happens. You should see the propshaft turning and the rear wheel turning, this will confirm something is working.
It's possible the wheel on the other side of the car was spinning and you couldn't see it. It can be claimed they are two wheel drive on very soft ground (one front and one rear) as they have open diffs but from experience in soft ground you normally see all four wheels spinning.

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Or do the one wheel up test (Google it) and see what happens

I'd start by just jacking up 1 rear wheel and try turning it.

It shouldn't be easy to turn, it should take a lot of force and then only turn very slowly - it may appear as though its 'seized'. There should though be a 1/4 turn or so that does move easily as this is just the gears in the diff and IRD mating up.

If that's the case then you're transmission should be OK, but, as said, I'd still do the 1WUT (see link below).

If it turns easily, you need to see which prop shafts turn when you turn the wheel. If neither turn, then the rear diff is knackered. If only the rear prop turns, then the VCU is knackered and if they both turn then your IRD is knackered - or specifically adapted to run 2WD only.

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/tests-new-freelander-1-owners-should-do-on-their-car.312863/

bevan83 said:

I had the service history dropped off by a friend earlier and In 2015 is had a recon VCU and IRD.

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I wonder if a 2WD IRD has been fitted? They do exist, as some reconditioning places simply leave out the most expensive gear (the crown gear) to keep costs down, passing some of that reduced cost to the purchaser of such an IRD.

bevan83 said:

could it be a rear diff or is it normally VCU and IRD failure that causes this?

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The One Wheel Up Test is a good start.

bevan83 said:

just wondering if there are any tests I can do to find out what the cause is?

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Get a helper to turn a rear wheel (once off the ground and HB is off) so you can see what is or isn't turning.

Nodge68 said:

I wonder if a 2WD IRD has been fitted? They do exist, as some reconditioning places simply leave out the most expensive gear (the crown gear) to keep costs down, passing some of that reduced cost to the purchaser of such an IRD.

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You don't know what's happened in the 5 years since, but you wouldn't fit a recon 2WD IRD and recon VCU. Not unless someone was taking advantage of you anyway..

Thank you all for your responses I will check all that you have advised today.

when I purchased the l
Freelander someone has fitted off road tyres, snorkel, and lift kit and light bars. The person I bought it off said he been using it hunting and as far as he knew 4 wd was working.

it defiantley been used for off reading so must have had 4wd at some point.

GrumpyGel said:

I'd start by just jacking up 1 rear wheel and try turning it.

It shouldn't be easy to turn, it should take a lot of force and then only turn very slowly - it may appear as though its 'seized'. There should though be a 1/4 turn or so that does move easily as this is just the gears in the diff and IRD mating up.

If that's the case then you're transmission should be OK, but, as said, I'd still do the 1WUT (see link below).

If it turns easily, you need to see which prop shafts turn when you turn the wheel. If neither turn, then the rear diff is knackered. If only the rear prop turns, then the VCU is knackered and if they both turn then your IRD is knackered - or specifically adapted to run 2WD only.

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/tests-new-freelander-1-owners-should-do-on-their-car.312863/

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Thank you so much for your info, just did the one wheel up check and the rear wheel was easy to turn. Checked the prop underneath and only
The rear prop was turning and not the front, indicating it is the VCU.

going to have a look for one now.

mate they easy to replace and could I do it at home?

thanks

ryan

bevan83 said:

Thank you so much for your info, just did the one wheel up check and the rear wheel was easy to turn. Checked the prop underneath and only
The rear prop was turning and not the front, indicating it is the VCU.

going to have a look for one now.

mate they easy to replace and could I do it at home?

thanks

ryan

Click to expand...

Before you splash out on a replacement VCU, it would be wise to check if the VCU has failed open (i.e. unable to provide drive) which is very unusual, unless its been tampered with or deliberately made free. Or the splines on the propshaft have stripped, which can happen if the bolts haven't been tightened correctly.

bevan83 said:

must have had 4wd at some point.

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Well it was when it left the factory

Or more accurately, it was AWD.

In on road conditions, and off road with good traction, the VCU on a Freelander does not transmit any torque to the back axle (or not much anyway) - it is just like a front wheel drive car. So the front diff (in the IRD) is distributing torque evenly between the front wheels. The VCU basically limits the difference in speed of rotation between the front prop (which turns at the speed of the front axle) and the back prop (which turns at the speed of the back axle). If there is good traction, the 2 turn at the same speed, so it "doesn't do anything". As soon as there is a difference in speed, ie a front wheel has lost traction and is therefore spinning faster than the car is moving (or more accurately, faster than the back axle) it will (essentially) fuse the front and rear props, therefore transmitting torque to the back axle. So, as said above, you are guaranteed 2 wheels will get torque.

The way diffs work, is that they distribute torque evenly between 2 wheels. This is fine in normal conditions, and allows for turning corners where wheels turn at slightly different speeds, however, they have a 'problem' in that if 1 wheel loses traction (becomes easier to turn) it gets all the torque.

With the 'bigger' Land Rovers, they also have a central diff which then distributes torque evenly between front and rear prop shafts, which then drive diffs for the front and back axles. So they do not run front wheel drive under normal conditions, they are 'permanent 4WD'. However, because of the way diffs work, if any 1 wheel loses traction, it gets all the torque and the other 3 with traction do nothing to move the car - so in some ways with permanent 4WD you are 3 times more likely 'to get stuck' with no traction (eg 1 wheel is over a boggy hollow or you are in an axle twisting situation). To overcome this, there is a 'lock' for the center diff which can be manually engaged. This means that torque will be applied to both front and rear diffs - so you are guaranteed 2 wheels will get torque.

The way 'Jap' 4WDs work is that they are switchable between 2WD and 4WD. In normal conditions they run as rear wheel drive. When you want 4WD, you engage it with a lever (or button). There is no center diff, it will provide torque to both front and rear diffs - so you are guaranteed 2 wheels will get torque.

So Freelander behaves as a front wheel drive in normal conditions, but when a wheel loses traction, it immediately becomes the same as a permanent 4WD with diff lock engaged or a switchable transmission in 4WD.

It does this immediately (like in 1/8th of a wheel turn or summat) and will immediately release it as well. There is no faffing with levers, no stopping to change mode and getting bogged down. It's a great system. Much better than the alternatives - with the exception of late RR classics and P38 which have a VCU in the center diff - so they work on similar principles.

It also has the electronic gizmos of TC and HDC, which where then adopted by Discovery in the D2 (when they did away with the center diff lock so they are poor examples of 4WD - you are only guaranteed 1 wheel will get torque).

What Freelander does not have though is a low range gearbox. It is also dependent on the VCU being in good condition and good tyre management. Most owners are not aware of either of these requirements, which are quite easy to live with if you are aware, and therefore Freelanders have a history of destroying their transmission. That '3 tests' link above gives all the info needed to make sure that does not happen.

bevan83 said:

Thank you so much for your info, just did the one wheel up check and the rear wheel was easy to turn. Checked the prop underneath and only
The rear prop was turning and not the front, indicating it is the VCU.

going to have a look for one now.

mate they easy to replace and could I do it at home?

thanks

ryan

Click to expand...

Nodge68 said:

Before you splash out on a replacement VCU, it would be wise to check if the VCU has failed open (i.e. unable to provide drive) which is very unusual, unless its been tampered with or deliberately made free. Or the splines on the propshaft have stripped, which can happen if the bolts haven't been tightened correctly.

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Its pretty easy to do at home. First thing to do is to get the props/VCU off the car and split the props from the VCU.

This post gives some instruction and has a video for splitting the props away...

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-ro...ld-do-on-their-car.312863/page-2#post-4891602

You can then see if the prop splines are OK. If they are not, you should be able to pick up a replacement set easily enough - plenty of Freelanders being scrapped.

If you get replacement props, they will probably come with a VCU - but it will probably be in no condition to use. We have no info on testing a VCU off the car. The only info we have is the 1 wheel up test and that needs to be performed with the props installed.

So you can test with the props as you get them - see if the VCU is OK, and also test it with your VCU.

Obviously, if the props are OK, then the VCU will be knackered - as said its rare, but then so is the splines stripping.

If you need a VCU, the people generally accepted as the best place to go to among Freelander 'enthusiasts' is Bell Engineering...

http://www.bellengineering.co.uk/freelander-1-products/

You'll probably want to get a VCU with support bearings. Its a difficult (I'd say impossible!) job to get ones off a VCU and reuse them unless you have gear to do it.

Before you go spending any money though, I'd check the output from the IRD pinion to make sure it does not turn (just a bit of slack taken up in gear teeth). If that turns freely, then its been converted to 2WD and wont drive the props. It might also be worth changing the oil in the IRD and making sure the old oil does not come out looking 'metallicy' - this would be a very worn IRD that is not in condition to have 4WD reinstated. If they're good, then you should be fine.

ALWAYS loosen the fill bolt on the IRD before draining the oil - and use a good tight fitting 6 sided socket - they are soft as cheese and very prone to rounding.

As I say, these tasks are quite easy, but arduous and take care because the bits are very heavy. The bolts on the ends of the prop are torx - but can usually be removed by 'normal' sockets if you don't have any. It can take a huge amount of whacking with a heavy hammer to separate the props from VCU (see how bent the chisel is in that video) - but it is just a case of hitting it harder

The thing most likely to bring about naughty words is actually loosening the IRD fill bolt.

Good luck. Its actually a really good job to do to get to know your Frelander

GrumpyGel said:

Its pretty easy to do at home. First thing to do is to get the props/VCU off the car and split the props from the VCU.

This post gives some instruction and has a video for splitting the props away...

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-ro...ld-do-on-their-car.312863/page-2#post-4891602

You can then see if the prop splines are OK. If they are not, you should be able to pick up a replacement set easily enough - plenty of Freelanders being scrapped.

If you get replacement props, they will probably come with a VCU - but it will probably be in no condition to use. We have no info on testing a VCU off the car. The only info we have is the 1 wheel up test and that needs to be performed with the props installed.

So you can test with the props as you get them - see if the VCU is OK, and also test it with your VCU.

Obviously, if the props are OK, then the VCU will be knackered - as said its rare, but then so is the splines stripping.

If you need a VCU, the people generally accepted as the best place to go to among Freelander 'enthusiasts' is Bell Engineering...

http://www.bellengineering.co.uk/freelander-1-products/

You'll probably want to get a VCU with support bearings. Its a difficult (I'd say impossible!) job to get ones off a VCU and reuse them unless you have gear to do it.

Before you go spending any money though, I'd check the output from the IRD pinion to make sure it does not turn (just a bit of slack taken up in gear teeth). If that turns freely, then its been converted to 2WD and wont drive the props. It might also be worth changing the oil in the IRD and making sure the old oil does not come out looking 'metallicy' - this would be a very worn IRD that is not in condition to have 4WD reinstated. If they're good, then you should be fine.

ALWAYS loosen the fill bolt on the IRD before draining the oil - and use a good tight fitting 6 sided socket - they are soft as cheese and very prone to rounding.

As I say, these tasks are quite easy, but arduous and take care because the bits are very heavy. The bolts on the ends of the prop are torx - but can usually be removed by 'normal' sockets if you don't have any. It can take a huge amount of whacking with a heavy hammer to separate the props from VCU (see how bent the chisel is in that video) - but it is just a case of hitting it harder

The thing most likely to bring about naughty words is actually loosening the IRD fill bolt.

Good luck. Its actually a really good job to do to get to know your Frelander

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I have been overwhelmed with the responses and support I have received for this post and thank you all very much.

I just had replace vcu and both front and rear prop shafts off a friends free lander 1 that he blew the engine on yesterday, all 4wd working so looking forward to getting her up in the air over the weekend and having a go.

Will keep you posted on the progress.

thanks again

Ryan

bevan83 said:

I have been overwhelmed with the responses and support I have received for this post and thank you all very much.

I just had replace vcu and both front and rear prop shafts off a friends free lander 1 that he blew the engine on yesterday, all 4wd working so looking forward to getting her up in the air over the weekend and having a go.

Will keep you posted on the progress.

thanks again

Ryan

Click to expand...

Make sure you check the VCU is not seized or it will blow your transmission (eventually). One wheel up test is the way to do it.
A quick and dirty way to do it off the car is with two hefty screwdrivers either side of the VCU. If you fan turn it it's probably OK but do the test anyway once fitted. If you can't turn it then get it reconned by Bells before fitting.