Freelander 1 Will these cars ever become an appreciating classic?

^^ boat thread alert ^^

Just shows how capable these freelanderererererers are

Mines appreciating already.
Certainly worth more than when I bought it a year ago, anyway!

I think one way to make the FL1 more valuable, would be to convert it to electric drive. Although I expect it'll cost more to convert, then the value it would add. It's something that I'm still considering for a future project though.

my wife has had hers for over 20 years its a 1800 hse and she was just saying today she has had her money worth out of it I think she paid about 9k it coming up to 90,000 and had 1 new head gasket yes its the 1800 but every Mot she passes no advisories I can not say that for a lot of cars I have had in the past, I am on my second freelander a td4 hse auto and I had a few problems but all sorted I hope! I do not want a new car that as soon as you are of the forecourt you have lost about 20% I know both cars and that the way I like it .

Nodge68 said:

I think one way to make the FL1 more valuable, would be to convert it to electric drive. Although I expect it'll cost more to convert, then the value it would add. It's something that I'm still considering for a future project though.

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In the same sense as its probably worth more as razor blades?

GrumpyGel said:

In the same sense as its probably worth more as razor blades?

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Electric vehicle prices are rising, as the EV movement hots up. Even the crap Nissan Leaf has seen a 25% increase in value over the last 18 months.

teddywood1 said:

my wife has had hers for over 20 years its a 1800 hse and she was just saying today she has had her money worth out of it I think she paid about 9k it coming up to 90,000 and had 1 new head gasket yes its the 1800 but every Mot she passes no advisories I can not say that for a lot of cars I have had in the past, I am on my second freelander a td4 hse auto and I had a few problems but all sorted I hope! I do not want a new car that as soon as you are of the forecourt you have lost about 20% I know both cars and that the way I like it .

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I'm on the same lines with ours. Had it 10 years, fault repairs and depreciation has averaged out at about £350 per year. Plus I have a fairly economical car to run that is easy and cheap to keep running.

Nodge68 said:

Electric vehicle prices are rising, as the EV movement hots up. Even the crap Nissan Leaf has seen a 25% increase in value over the last 18 months.

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I find this ridiculous. I’d get an electric motor if I could justify the outlay. They should be 2/3rds of the cost of a trad fuel motor to encourage their mainstream adoption.

Nodge68 said:

Electric vehicle prices are rising, as the EV movement hots up. Even the crap Nissan Leaf has seen a 25% increase in value over the last 18 months.

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Yeh, I was really surprised how expensive electric cars are. The cheapest Leaf over here is about £25k-£30k new. Silly money.

doriz said:

I find this ridiculous. I’d get an electric motor if I could justify the outlay.

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You check the price of a 10 year old Leaf, with 100K on the clock, and the battery at 60% of it's original capacity. Whatever price you see, will be up by about 25% on the same vehicle 18 months ago.

GrumpyGel said:

I was really surprised how expensive electric cars are. The cheapest Leaf over here is about £25k-£30k new.

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I was talking about second hand EVs. New prices haven't risen much, but because an EV is so cheap to run, and new ones are so expensive, second had prices have risen sharply.

This in itself makes a FL1 EV a viable proposition. If I could build a useable range FL1 for under £10K I would. I'm pretty sure if I can do it for under the £10K mark, it wouldn't loose any money long term, and have loads while using it.

What are you waiting for??
Can provide shell

GrumpyGel said:

Silly money.

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They will come down. The now Chinese owned MG brand are actually selling a useable and not bad EV (Oddly called a ZS) for under £25K. That's comparable in price to an equivalent Ford Kuga diesel, of a similar spec. Now factor in that the EV will have only 25% of the of the running costs (3 or 4 pence per mile), then it doesn't take a genius to work out, that the EV will save money from the word go. Add to this the slow depreciation of an EV and minimal maintenance cost, and it's soon becomes why the EV is now becoming the popular choice.

Most EVs currently sold are on some form of lease, which I think will be the new way to have a new car.

I've done the maths based on our current circumstances. We do lease a family car, at a cost of £300 per month. On top of this, in a normal (non CV19) month, we put £240 worth of fuel in that car. This is £540 per month on vehicle expenditure, just for run the family about.

Now I can lease a Tesla Model 3 for £480 per month, which leaves me £60 a month to pay for it's electric. The Model 3 will use 375 units of electric for the same monthly mileage, which will cost me £60 per month at my current electric tariff.

This low running cost is why electric cars are becoming more popular, and second hand prices are rising rapidly as a result.

andyfreelandy said:

What are you waiting for??

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I'm waiting for an immaculate condition 1.8 HSE with a failed engine.

But we all need a prototype first, then get into mass production of convertion kits, then retire early!!!

andyfreelandy said:

But we all need a prototype first, then get into mass production of convertion kits, then retire early!!!

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All joking apart if you could come up with a kit for 10K to convert a Freelander would be a good base car to fit it to, cheap to buy, do not seem to have rust problems, if you started converting them in any numbers you could take them into a factory, strip them down, refit the interior, respray change to electric and if you could sell for less than 20k a green recycled car?

Ian M in France said:

All joking apart if you could come up with a kit for 10K to convert a Freelander would be a good base car to fit it to, cheap to buy, do not seem to have rust problems, if you started converting them in any numbers you could take them into a factory, strip them down, refit the interior, respray change to electric and if you could sell for less than 20k a green recycled car?

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I've already been crunching numbers and working out what components are needed to make it move, steer and stop. I reckon I could make a driving and useable FL1 EV for under £10K, as long as a 100mile range isn't a major issue. If longer range is needed, then it'll cost more, as the batteries are the most expensive components needed, the capacity of which directly effect the range.

Unfortunately since EVs are becoming more popular, the salvaged components needed to build a DIY EV are also going up in cost, but it's still a viable proposition.

For my own use, a 100 mile range would be the equivalent of my weeks commute. So isn't a major problem. I could charge it every night, so it would always be ready for use in the morning.

Nodge68 said:

I've already been crunching numbers and working out what components are needed to make it move, steer and stop. I reckon I could make a driving and useable FL1 EV for under £10K, as long as a 100mile range isn't a major issue. If longer range is needed, then it'll cost more, as the batteries are the most expensive components needed, the capacity of which directly effect the range.

Unfortunately since EVs are becoming more popular, the salvaged components needed to build a DIY EV are also going up in cost, but it's still a viable proposition.

For my own use, a 100 mile range would be the equivalent of my weeks commute. So isn't a major problem. I could charge it every night, so it would always be ready for use in the morning.

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So 4 wheel drive? or just 2, rear wheel drive would be easier, do you keep a gearbox, or just direct drive? where do you mount batteries? I think the wiring would be a nightmare, I would love to have a go but think it is way beyond me

bukko said:

Mines appreciating already.
Certainly worth more than when I bought it a year ago, anyway!

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Why ? Is it because you’ve filled the tank up, it’ll double it’s value

Ian M in France said:

So 4 wheel drive? or just 2, rear wheel drive would be easier, do you keep a gearbox, or just direct drive?

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Keeping it 4WD, as a 2WD FL1 is pointless.

A Nissan Leaf motor/inverter can be coupled to the standard manual gearbox, in place of the engine. The gearbox could be used as a ratio change box for off road use, or simply left in 3rd or 4th all the time.
The motor has more than enough torque to accelerate a FL1 weight vehicle in 4th, and a high enough RPM range to make gear changing unnecessary. Reverse gear isn't needed at all, as the motor reverses direction for the vehicle to go backwards, which is something an IC engine can't do.

Brake vacuum comes from an electrical vacuum pump off another vehicle, as does an electric power steering pump. There's even an electric driven AC compressor available from another vehicle.

The standard FL1 PTC heater can be used to warm the cabin when cold, and the motor/inverter coolant circuit can be used to warm the heater matrix just like a conventional IC engine does.

An additional small radiator can be used to cool the motor/inverter when additional heating isn't needed in the cabin.

Ian M in France said:

where do you mount batteries?

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If the fuel tank is removed, there's a decent amount of space for a sizable battery pack, right there ready for use. There's also more space behind the rear sub-frame (where the rear silencer resides normally) and if the rear cubby box is removed (making the boot floor flat) then the space under the boot floor is huge. I've worked out I can fit over 30 kWh of batteries in those 2 locations alone.

The Nissan Leaf motor/inverter unit is much smaller than the IC engine, so there's more battery space up the front too, and even more space under the floors between the sills and chassis rails, if some ingenuity is used to assemble odd shaped battery packs. I think there's another 20 kWh or more of battery space under the floor, which would add to the range and usefulness of the vehicle.

Ian M in France said:

I think the wiring would be a nightmare,

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The wiring integration with the vehicle CAN-BUS will be the difficult bit, but I don't think it's impossible to solve these days, as there are CAN-BUS emulators and converters available now. Actually getting the vehicle to move under battery power isn't that difficult, as there's a growing community of people developing motor drive controllers for the Nissan Leaf motor/inverter for this very purpose.

Ian M in France said:

I would love to have a go but think it is way beyond me

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Thankfully I'm suitably skilled to do the engineering, but my stumbling block is the finances, which would be a considerable up front outlay, with no return until it's on the road. Also a suitable (immaculate) FL1 needs to be found at a good price, as there's no point in messing with a tatty or rusty vehicle to start with.

Perhaps opportunity for a team of 10 or 12 to self finance a small business??