P38A Ignition Key

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Not really, I mentioned not being able to "edit" the BeCM (you can access it, but not write) , and you said "locked"... Mozz also mentions "future problems" with disabling immo & EKA, BTW
Anyway, I see you elsewhere you have no nano, so your risk calculation will be slightly different from mine. Plus I don't know that micro-switch problems just go away, so you're taking another risk I wouldn't
 
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romanrob said:
Not really, I mentioned not being able to "edit" the BeCM (you can access it, but not write) , and you said "locked"... Mozz also mentions "future problems" with disabling immo & EKA, BTW
Anyway, I see you elsewhere you have no nano, so your risk calculation will be slightly different from mine. Plus I don't know that micro-switch problems just go away, so you're taking another risk I wouldn't
Click to expand...

With a Nanocom you can change settings within the BECM. If it's unlocked all of them, if it's locked some cannot be changed. This is done in diagnostic mode with ignition switched off. Settings can be changed and re written. Not advisable if you don't know what you are doing though. The BECM can be locked with Nonocom but cannot be unlocked that needs special software and MSV2.
 
romanrob said:
Not really, I mentioned not being able to "edit" the BeCM (you can access it, but not write) , and you said "locked"... Mozz also mentions "future problems" with disabling immo & EKA, BTW
Anyway, I see you elsewhere you have no nano, so your risk calculation will be slightly different from mine. Plus I don't know that micro-switch problems just go away, so you're taking another risk I wouldn't
Click to expand...
I have a Faultmate which runs very similar software to the Nanocom which it preceded. Unless the BECM goes into an alarmed and locked state, EKA and Immobiliser can be turned on again at any time. As for risk calculations, I was designing and manufacturing computers and micro controllers long before the P38 was made so I have a fairly good idea of how the electronics work. I don't take risks, my aim was to reduce or eliminate the risk of the bloody car locking me out and/or refusing to start, I have achieved that.
You do what you want, it's not my problem.
 
wammers said:
With a Nanocom you can change settings within the BECM. If it's unlocked all of them, if it's locked some cannot be changed. This is done in diagnostic mode with ignition switched off. Settings can be changed and re written. Not advisable if you don't know what you are doing though. The BECM can be locked with Nonocom but cannot be unlocked that needs special software and MSV2.
Click to expand...
Normally, all BECM's are locked which is not the same as being in an alarmed and locked state.
 
Blimey I only asked! Getting back on thread I have just been to Stratford upon Avon Land Rover and ordered a new fob from an extremely helpful, fun lady called Elaine. Total cost £226.02 and should be here in a couple of days. Don't forget your V5 AND ID. She did though have to say( company policy) that it may not work but added that another chap had ordered one just the other day and it was fine. Fingers crossed.
Now back to Nano's, Becm's and the like.......very interesting but way above me. Love the idea of knocking possible problems on the head but I think I will have to wait for them to happen and then moan to you guys! At least I will have a spanking new fob.
Cheers
Simon
 
simoncant said:
Blimey I only asked! Getting back on thread I have just been to Stratford upon Avon Land Rover and ordered a new fob from an extremely helpful, fun lady called Elaine. Total cost £226.02 and should be here in a couple of days. Don't forget your V5 AND ID. She did though have to say( company policy) that it may not work but added that another chap had ordered one just the other day and it was fine. Fingers crossed.
Now back to Nano's, Becm's and the like.......very interesting but way above me. Love the idea of knocking possible problems on the head but I think I will have to wait for them to happen and then moan to you guys! At least I will have a spanking new fob.
Cheers
Simon
Click to expand...
Hope you ordered the right FOB number, if you have 2 with the same number, one will not work.
 
I thought it worth getting to the bottom of EKA disabled on a v.37 BeCM/ GEMS 1998. To simulate force entry I locked the car on the fob, waited for the alarm to arm, and then pulled the sill button to get to engine disabled. EKA entry has been done via Nano, I didn't attempt to do this via the door lock.

First off I tried with EKA enabled, just to be sure when I disable the engine I could get back with a. the Fob, and b. the EKA code, and yes, all fine - dash message "engine disabled enter the EKA or press the remote". Since I hadn't gone battery flat then the fob signal didn't need synching. I tried to change the EKA to "disabled" in the BeCM while the engine was disabled, but it didn't accept the change in that state.

Then I disabled EKA, wrote settings, came out and went back in again - EKA disabled still. I locked the door with the fob, opened with the sill button. Turned the ignition on, this time "engine disabled, press the remote". BUT, when I went into the BECM at this point the EKA option is marked "enabled". After entering the EKA code, and going into BeCM/ Alarm the EKA setting had now reverted to "Disabled". So it appears that the BeCM always leaves the backdoor open for EKA entry, even if the EKA option has supposedly been disabled, and it doesn't actually ask for the EKA on the dash.

To test the key blade as a means of deactivating the engine disabled state:
i.with EKA enabled, simulated engine disabled, the key in the door unlocks only the driver's door, and does nothing to cancel the engine disabled message on the dash - as expected then

ii.with EKA disabled - the key in the door opens all 4 doors, and does actually cancel the engine disabled state, and the car drives away...

So it looks as if when you disable EKA in the BeCM you have 3 options to mobilise the engine: i. Remote fob (as per the message centre) i. the EKA (even if not asked for) ii. the key in the door (also not requested).
 
romanrob said:
I thought it worth getting to the bottom of EKA disabled on a v.37 BeCM/ GEMS 1998. To simulate force entry I locked the car on the fob, waited for the alarm to arm, and then pulled the sill button to get to engine disabled. EKA entry has been done via Nano, I didn't attempt to do this via the door lock.

First off I tried with EKA enabled, just to be sure when I disable the engine I could get back with a. the Fob, and b. the EKA code, and yes, all fine - dash message "engine disabled enter the EKA or press the remote". Since I hadn't gone battery flat then the fob signal didn't need synching. I tried to change the EKA to "disabled" in the BeCM while the engine was disabled, but it didn't accept the change in that state.

Then I disabled EKA, wrote settings, came out and went back in again - EKA disabled still. I locked the door with the fob, opened with the sill button. Turned the ignition on, this time "engine disabled, press the remote". BUT, when I went into the BECM at this point the EKA option is marked "enabled". After entering the EKA code, and going into BeCM/ Alarm the EKA setting had now reverted to "Disabled". So it appears that the BeCM always leaves the backdoor open for EKA entry, even if the EKA option has supposedly been disabled, and it doesn't actually ask for the EKA on the dash.
To test the key blade as a means of deactivating the engine disabled state:
i.with EKA enabled, simulated engine disabled, the key in the door unlocks only the driver's door, and does nothing to cancel the engine disabled message on the dash - as expected then

ii.with EKA disabled - the key in the door opens all 4 doors, and does actually cancel the engine disabled state, and the car drives away...

So it looks as if when you disable EKA in the BeCM you have 3 options to mobilise the engine: i. Remote fob (as per the message centre) i. the EKA (even if not asked for) ii. the key in the door (also not requested).
Click to expand...
Pretty much what I have been telling you, it works even better with the immobiliser turned off in which case you do not need a back door as you put it to enter EKA.
 
Thanks for the head start. Given that messing with this can leave me stuck by the side of the road, and I already have a cast-iron way of disarming the vehicle by removing the Nano from the glove compartment, you will hopefully forgive my need to test out a function entitled "EKA disable" on my own BeCM / engine type. The feature is probably better described as "disarm by key blade enabled", same as "Immobiliser disable" is really "Passive immobiliser disable" . Perhaps you even learnt something from the test results

I have disabled (passive) immobiliser in any event, as it's of no use to me. You always need a back door - flat battery and microswitch failure and you will be connecting to the OBDII port
 
romanrob said:
Thanks for the head start. Given that messing with this can leave me stuck by the side of the road, and I already have a cast-iron way of disarming the vehicle by removing the Nano from the glove compartment, you will hopefully forgive my need to test out a function entitled "EKA disable" on my own BeCM / engine type. The feature is probably better described as "disarm by key blade enabled", same as "Immobiliser disable" is really "Passive immobiliser disable" . Perhaps you even learnt something from the test results

I have disabled (passive) immobiliser in any event, as it's of no use to me. You always need a back door - flat battery and microswitch failure and you will be connecting to the OBDII port
Click to expand...
Disabling the immobiliser means that the BECM will transmit the mobilisation code without being prompted by the fob to do so and as far as I can establish it's not dependent on the drivers door microswitches working.
 
Possibly we're about to confuse one another again - I think you're relying on the induction coil on the ignition for the BeCM to transmit without being prompted (which may need an in-synch fob).

With EKA disabled, I'm thinking battery flat, (left the lights on, fob out of synch), GEMS has no coil - so you have blade in the door (I guess this needs microswitches, else how does the BeCM know you are legit), or else you need a functioning OBD II port and diagnostics in the glove box (EKA)... keyed entry of the EKA is obviously a non-starter (since the micro-switches are defintiely need for that)

At any rate, i think we know where we are now - thanks for getting me to this point

Good news about the key Simon
 
romanrob said:
Possibly we're about to confuse one another again - I think you're relying on the induction coil on the ignition for the BeCM to transmit without being prompted (which may need an in-synch fob).

With EKA disabled, I'm thinking battery flat, (left the lights on, fob out of synch), GEMS has no coil - so you have blade in the door (I guess this needs microswitches, else how does the BeCM know you are legit), or else you need a functioning OBD II port and diagnostics in the glove box (EKA)... keyed entry of the EKA is obviously a non-starter (since the micro-switches are defintiely need for that)

At any rate, i think we know where we are now - thanks for getting me to this point

Good news about the key Simon
Click to expand...
With the immobiliser turned off, the passive coil on the ignition switch is disabled, to re-sync the FOB in this situation requires a different procedure.
With EKA and Immobiliser turned off the BECM neither knows or cares if you are legit as you put it, as long as the key fits to open the door and operate the ignition you are good to go.
With EKA turned off it is never needed.
You are tying yourself in knots.
 
simoncant said:
Just for a heads up on the new fob from Stratford. No 4 ordered. Arrive within 48 hrs. All worked straight away. Happy bunny!
Click to expand...
Hi Simon ,Well done & thanks for the heads up on the result !!!!… I really like it when people look listen and apply exactly what you have done and get your answer of what you asked ,!!!!!!, great stuff , simple if others don't get lost in offshoots of trying to solve others problems the mind boggles but hey ho ,sometimes entertaining sometimes annoying , anyway so glad u got result , please let us know result from Mr Sporty with refurb , kind regards Mozz
 
Datatek said:
With the immobiliser turned off, the passive coil on the ignition switch is disabled, to re-sync the FOB in this situation requires a different procedure.
With EKA and Immobiliser turned off the BECM neither knows or cares if you are legit as you put it, as long as the key fits to open the door and operate the ignition you are good to go.
With EKA turned off it is never needed.
You are tying yourself in knots.
Click to expand...
Not really tying myself in knots - just trying to work out how you think there are no microswitches involved. Legit in my world means someone who has a key/ fob - so yes, the fact that i put the key in the lock of my engine disabled car (EKA disabled), turned it, and had all 4 doors go open pretty much means that the BeCM knows. If you are sure of what you're saying, then very possibly we have uncovered a difference between a GEMs and EDC, I can tell you positively that the key in the ignition of my car will not clear Engine Disabled - it is the unlocking of the door that does it, as per my testing above. Anyway, i think we now know there are multiple ways to disarm the vehicle, the more redundancy the better -whether its the reliance on micro-switches or OBD II, they're all 20+ years old, so all risky.

Can we now agree? Or if not just agree to disagree? I guess everyone else is getting bored
 
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Tenebreaux said:
Fob was unrepairable, which is fair enough. He seemed to lose interest after that. Had it for three weeks, didn't answer emails, didn't answer the phone. I started a case in small claims for the cost of a replacement key and, miraculously, his email started working again two minutes after I let him know the case details.
Click to expand...
HI TENEBREAUX, So having read your post , How did things go did you get a result or not ???? I personally have recommended him many times, im talking about people who I have helped wich is many many owners not just in uk but all over Europe. , so I really don't understand why you haven't given an update ???????? perhaps you could do that in answer to this, it would be appreciated ,obviously to Mr Sporty but also to all the other members who read these threads !!!!! kind regards Mozz .
 
romanrob said:
Not really tying myself in knots - just trying to work out how you think there are no microswitches involved. Legit in my world means someone who has a key/ fob - so yes, the fact that i put the key in the lock of my engine disabled car (EKA disabled), turned it, and had all 4 doors go open pretty much means that the BeCM knows. If you are sure of what you're saying, then very possibly we have uncovered a difference between a GEMs and EDC, I can tell you positively that the key in the ignition of my car will not clear Engine Disabled - it is the unlocking of the door that does it, as per my testing above. Anyway, i think we now know there are multiple ways to disarm the vehicle, the more redundancy the better -whether its the reliance on micro-switches or OBD II, they're all 20+ years old, so all risky.

Can we now agree? Or if not just agree to disagree? I guess everyone else is getting bored
Click to expand...
I did not say the micro switches were not involved, I said a problem disappeared with EKA and immobiliser turned off.
I used to get the "Engine immobilsed press FOB" message from time to time. As the Immobiliser is now turned off, the microswitch involved is irrelevant as the BECM automatically sends the code to remobilise the EDC when the door is unlocked and/or the ignition is turned on. The EDC is remobilised whether or not the car is left locked or left unlocked, I never lock the car at home, only when we are out, I also said that this applies to the diesel, I have no idea if it apples to the V8
 
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