Transfer box in neutral for brake rollers?

sierrafery said:

I thought that this thread was about brake roller test

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"It's a fair cop, guv!"
Thought you'd answered it anyway!

Stanleysteamer said:

We were talking about driving sympathetically to the vehicle, driving sympathetically to a Disco with diff lock means engaging it when off road to avoid the sort of problems you could possibly incur through not doing this. That is a diff issue.

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oh is it?
Once you have it locked it is not really an issue is it?

We all know to only lock the diff at standstill or less the “3mph “as per manual.

J

marjon said:

Once you have it locked it is not really an issue is it?

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(See both my and JM's posts on this.) The issue was whether to lock it or not. Still a diff issue! And when or how to lock it, was not an issue, until you raised it.
Or are you now the thread police!

Stanleysteamer said:

(See both my and JM's posts on this.) The issue was whether to lock it or not. Still a diff issue! And when or how to lock it, was not an issue, until you raised it.
Or are you now the thread police!

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No. I saw nothing about locking a diff.
Police look out. Not me

drive your disco upon the 2 wheel ramp and lock the center diff (if you have it)see the testers expression then.
When a diff is locked it’s not a “diff”.
I don’t see where you can say JMs post contradicted anything I have said.

J

marjon said:

oh is it?
Once you have it locked it is not really an issue is it?

We all know to only lock the diff at standstill or less the “3mph “as per manual.

J

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Still off Topic...sorry.
My disco’s owners handbook states “The diff lock can be engaged or disengaged either with the vehicle stationary, or when driving at any road speed.” which I proved can be done at 30 or 40mph in the snow, years ago, the first and last time, now the selector is seized so no diff lock or moving from H into L , that is due to lack of use of course.

discool said:

My disco’s owners handbook states “The diff lock can be engaged or disengaged either with the vehicle stationary, or when driving at any road speed.” which I proved can be done at 30 or 40mph in the snow, years ago, the first and last time, now the selector is seized so no diff lock or moving from H into L , that is due to lack of use of course.

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it can be engaged or disengaged at any speed as long as both axles are doing similar speeds

My final words on this subject.

The MOT test manual states NOT to test 4x4 vehicles on the brake rollers - and, according to people I have spoken to, this is due issues with centre diffs (and viscous couplings) getting trashed by the process, and presumably the testing garage getting the bill for fixing same (?), or maybe the owners...

Also when someone like Ashcroft advises against something, I'll listen, and make up my own mind. Same applies when JM, who I respect, offers an opinion - in this case I do take his point about some ashcroft units having had issues ( I've heard that before )... ( I'd take more notice of JM, TBF )

So, in summary - the centre diff will, in all probability survive the brake rollers, BUT, and it is quite a big but, testing in this manner breaches the MOT guidance - so why do it ?? Seriously! Also - the D2 manual says not to do it, and the TB is the same, so .....

Both our D1's have passed the MOT's in the last few days . Brake rollers were not used - and nor would I have allowed them to be used.

Given I would end up paying for any damage done , I'm sticking with my opinion, which is shared by LR, the MOT guidance, ( and Ashcroft .......)

Disco1BFG said:

The MOT test manual states NOT to test 4x4 vehicles on the brake rollers

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Then IMO they wrote it incomplete cos they should have said at the end "if the equipment is not dedicated for that" ... somebody explain what can be the issue on a testing machine conceived to test 4x4 vehicles which it is turning the wheels in opposite directions so the propshaft is not moving ... i'm also a sustainer of official recommendations as long as they dont defeat logic or real life experience ... btw LR is speaking about road roller not brake rollers.

WOW, not sure how we got onto the correct time/speed/way to apply the centre locking diff from my original question...
Anyhoo, just like that band from the 80s, It's Immaterial, i had to cancel the MOT today as when i jumped in the Disco annoyingly AFTER scraping the ice off the windows, i couldn't drive away due to the second hand throttle pedal i bought off ebay a week or so ago failed. Having to bite the bullet now and fork out £351 for a new one!
Oh, and all this talk about a centre locking diff annoys me somewhat, as Land Rover decided to omit it on my Disco

sierrafery said:

Find a serious tester who has equipment for 4x4 vehicles and you can stay calm and wait.... normally those who dont have the tools should not have authority to test 4x4s. As long as the customer is paying why woult he remove propshafts or stay stressed?

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Tapley meter IS the proper equipment, if not, they would not be licensed to do MOTs. Agree the counter rotating rollers are better, but not all testers have them. And I expect the ones that do charge more!

yfo866 said:

the second hand throttle pedal i bought off ebay a week or so ago failed. Having to bite the bullet now and fork out £351

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Didnt you have any warranty on that? Call this guy (he doesnt give sh*t to people)
Discovery 2 Parts
Quality Used and New Parts & Accessories

Call Paul on
01206 211623 - office
07828 278465
07760 955966
07840 428888

Stanleysteamer said:

Agree the counter rotating rollers are better, but not all testers have them. And I expect the ones that do charge more!

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IMO the counter rotating ones are the only ones suitable for 4x4 as to not stress the owner... at the stations where i had the tests 4x4 is an option of the equipment and when selected the rollers are counter rotating that's all... the price for any 4x4 is a bit higher than for ''normal'' vehicles while who doesnt have the dedicated tool for 4x4 can't get any money for them as it's not allowed to do it, simple as that

yfo866 said:

WOW, not sure how we got onto the correct time/speed/way to apply the centre locking diff from my original question...
Anyhoo, just like that band from the 80s, It's Immaterial, i had to cancel the MOT today as when i jumped in the Disco annoyingly AFTER scraping the ice off the windows, i couldn't drive away due to the second hand throttle pedal i bought off ebay a week or so ago failed. Having to bite the bullet now and fork out £351 for a new one!
Oh, and all this talk about a centre locking diff annoys me somewhat, as Land Rover decided to omit it on my Disco

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Seriously, if you don't want to fu ck your vehicles tranny take it for the MOT and make sure they either test it on the road with a Tapley meter or on a set of counter-rotating rollers. And if the former, remind them not to test the hanbrake except at low/walking speed. They may look at you sideways, cos they know what they are doing, but at least you have told them.
Sorry about any off-thread stuff, (although I was not the only one doing it I am possibly one of the worst offenders). Some of us do it and some people don't mind, some find it interesting and some get upset about it!
I too have a TD5 with no working diff lock. You are supposed to not need it cos you have traction control but I do miss it. Depending on your model you may be able either to get it working or get it retro fitted. Plenty of threads on this forum about it.
Best of luck and sorry to hear about the throttle pedal. Try specialised LR breakers, they'll be cheaper than a new one and more reliable than the Bay!

sierrafery said:

IMO the counter rotating ones are the only ones suitable for 4x4 as to not stress the owner... at the stations where i had the tests 4x4 is an option of the equipment and when selected the rollers are counter rotating that's all... the price for any 4x4 is a bit higher than for ''normal'' vehicles while who doesnt have the dedicated tool for 4x4 can't get any money for them as it's not allowed to do it, simple as that

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I understand where you are coming from, and sympathise with your point of view, but no, an MOT testing station, using a Tapley meter is fully allowed.
see this "If the primary brake tester is not suitable for the vehicle’s drive configuration, transmission type or braking system, a full or partial decelerometer test may be appropriate. You should take into account any additional information from the vehicle manufacturer." from the official MOT testers manual on Gov.uk https://www.gov.uk/guidance/mot-ins...senger-and-light-commercial-vehicles/1-brakes
You may not prefer it but it is not illegal and an MOT awarded under this testing regime is legal.
And I already posted this link, see post#13.

marjon said:

I think you will find it was how all test were done before new rules came in, but 4x4 were still allowed to be tested this way, I remember the wood box with this meter in it that used to sit in the footwell on the drive up the back drive to test brakes.(would love to find out what dad did with theirs)

accurate adequate at the time



does nothing to assist center diff only taking off a prop will do that.

is it right only on 2 rollers? Not really. Will it hurt for 3seconds not had any problem yet.

J

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No me neither, and my last 7 mots have been done on the rollers, but I do trust my tester and he is also a 4x4 guy like us

Stanleysteamer said:

Seriously, if you don't want to fu ck your vehicles tranny take it for the MOT and make sure they either test it on the road with a Tapley meter or on a set of counter-rotating rollers. And if the former, remind them not to test the hanbrake except at low/walking speed. They may look at you sideways, cos they know what they are doing, but at least you have told them.
Sorry about any off-thread stuff, (although I was not the only one doing it I am possibly one of the worst offenders). Some of us do it and some people don't mind, some find it interesting and some get upset about it!
I too have a TD5 with no working diff lock. You are supposed to not need it cos you have traction control but I do miss it. Depending on your model you may be able either to get it working or get it retro fitted. Plenty of threads on this forum about it.
Best of luck and sorry to hear about the throttle pedal. Try specialised LR breakers, they'll be cheaper than a new one and more reliable than the Bay!

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I viewed the comments going off on a tangent with amusement, lets be honest, i don't think Landy owners can help it
The thing with having no centre locking diff, but traction control, on my Disco, i'm not 100% convinced mine works properly. It makes one hell of a noise, which a marshal at Stoneleigh last year assured me was normal, but mine will 'go off' when just driving off a curb, which i'm sure can't be right? I almost got stuck about four times on the Stoneleigh course, and got PROPA stuck and had to be winched by a marshal's 110. Something that never happened in the old 300TDi. I think i'll be adding linkages or the relevent parts of the transfer box to give me back a locking diff before Billing, that is assuming we aren't all dead by coronavirus by then.
I've tried second hand and will opt for new this time. At the end of the day all anyone can do is test it before they take it off. How long it continues to work is anybody's guess.
The central locking reciever is getting very hard of hearing, to the point that it doesn't work unless i hold the fob against the roof. With buying a new unit plus the pedal i'm resigned to forking about about £400 this month. By pure coincidence overtime resumed at the start of the month so it just means all of my staurday mornings are being spent on the Disco.
Easy come easy go.........

yfo866 said:

I viewed the comments going off on a tangent with amusement, lets be honest, i don't think Landy owners can help it
The thing with having no centre locking diff, but traction control, on my Disco, i'm not 100% convinced mine works properly. It makes one hell of a noise, which a marshal at Stoneleigh last year assured me was normal, but mine will 'go off' when just driving off a curb, which i'm sure can't be right? I almost got stuck about four times on the Stoneleigh course, and got PROPA stuck and had to be winched by a marshal's 110. Something that never happened in the old 300TDi. I think i'll be adding linkages or the relevent parts of the transfer box to give me back a locking diff before Billing, that is assuming we aren't all dead by coronavirus by then.
I've tried second hand and will opt for new this time. At the end of the day all anyone can do is test it before they take it off. How long it continues to work is anybody's guess.
The central locking reciever is getting very hard of hearing, to the point that it doesn't work unless i hold the fob against the roof. With buying a new unit plus the pedal i'm resigned to forking about about £400 this month. By pure coincidence overtime resumed at the start of the month so it just means all of my staurday mornings are being spent on the Disco.
Easy come easy go.........

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Like you I also have a 300 td1 (and a Disco 1 V8) so I know exactly what you mean about traction control suddenly appearing to go off, or come on, if you prefer, for no apparent reason. This is normal, though it seems a bit bizarre. The noise is normal, it is just that you aren't used to it. I have also got stuck with my tdi in relatively shallow mud even with diff lock on. Nothing to be ashamed of. It happens. You can, as you know, get stuck with traction control on a td5. I have also had that happen. Neither is the answer to absolutely all conditions. There is also the issue of how the TCU or BCU or whichever electronic box of tricks, will react to you having a diff lock combined with Traction Control. It can be done and is done, but you will find threads on this with opinions going both ways, as usual! Have fun!

Stanleysteamer said:

Like you I also have a 300 td1 (and a Disco 1 V8) so I know exactly what you mean about traction control suddenly appearing to go off, or come on, if you prefer, for no apparent reason. This is normal, though it seems a bit bizarre. The noise is normal, it is just that you aren't used to it. I have also got stuck with my tdi in relatively shallow mud even with diff lock on. Nothing to be ashamed of. It happens. You can, as you know, get stuck with traction control on a td5. I have also had that happen. Neither is the answer to absolutely all conditions. There is also the issue of how the TCU or BCU or whichever electronic box of tricks, will react to you having a diff lock combined with Traction Control. It can be done and is done, but you will find threads on this with opinions going both ways, as usual! Have fun!

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I have to be honest, so far i've not been very impressed with TC at all. I don't do a huge amount of off roading, but have done Great Billing for the last five years, and Kelmarsh in the Disco 1 and with the centre lock engaged and a good set of Insa mud terrains fitted have only gotten stuck once on the mud section at Billing. Got through the first lap but by the time lap two came around it had gotton a lot more rutted and the marshal at first refused to let me in, "with those tyres on" but after me continually repeating, "i got through last time" at him he threw his hands up and walked away. HA, that told him! I had to be towed out...
Last year in the Disco 2 i got stuck once at Stoneleigh, and one section repeatedly only got through by the skin of my teeth each time, again at Billing climbing out of the first ravine-ish obstacle after the couple of humps. I had about six attempts to exit that and in the end had to reverse out. Based on that shameful attempt i didn't even attempt the mud pit and for the first time ever, bypassed it!
On the second lap through i drove through the failed obstacle like i'd stolen it and just barely got out. I hit the hump on the way out so hard i half ripped off the rusted tubular front bumper support. I didn't really mind this as it added some lightness...
Based on this new found success and BALLS OUT attitude i didn't bypass the mud this time i drove at the mud in. if i'm honest. the only way i know how, FLAT OUT and actually made it through!
Then there was 'the incident' pictured below. TC was only turning one wheel from what i could see although i'm not sure locking the diff would have been enough to get me out. A JCB Telehandler driven by very VERY nice man did the job though!

The rollers may test each wheel on their own, but they may also self centre, ie they run up as an axle set, before the brake test is carried out.

Cannot be many modern garages that do mots, that do not have brake rollers?

Stanleysteamer said:

I would suggest that MOST MOT testers do not have the dedicated 4 wheel drive counter rotational special brake testing systems.
Which is why they do the safe thing and test with a Tapley meter. They also brake and use their brains to see if the brakes pull to one side or the other.
No magic in it.
It is not the tester's job to test a brake system to destruction.

And yes, as another poster mentioned, a rolling road is very different from brake testing rollers. In the former, the car provides the rotational force, in the latter the rollers provide it. Not rocket science. The first is designed to test the drive provided by the engine and transmission, the second is only designed to test the brakes.

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The modern version of hte taplye, called a Bowmonk tester, even measures side to side pull, it is pretty much the same to use as the old tapley meter and in my honest opinion is about as much cop, not a lot!