Injector copper washers? How to reuse them.

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Zenerdiode

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Having recently Posted a method of how to remove the carbon cemented copper-washers from the base of Injectors in their cylinder-head bores, which has been widely accepted as well as copied, I will now move forward to yet an additional benefit concerning the same copper washers. I hasten to add that what I Post is applicable to all.

Copper is not that much different to other metals. It is malleable as well as non-ferrous, which is to say it is non-ferrous. It doesn’t rust.

Copper crushes easily when compressed, and can create a good seal against liquids as well as pressure. And this is where it proves to be invaluable when involved with engineering practices.

The copper washer I removed from my injector, as well as those from others, was made from solid copper. There were no additives or inter-plated levels. In other words, as said… solid copper plate.

Now follows my past experience as well as in-depth scientific knowledge.

I used to own and rebuild BSA motorcycles. I did it on an annual basis, even if the machine was running perfectly. That is how I am! I need my machines to be perfect. Or… they might fail. I do not like failure!!!! I like my machines to work.

The copper washers used in my FL1’s Injectors were solid copper, as previously explained, and were pliable – if treated accordingly. My 1967 BSA A65-Thunderbolt motorcycle used solid copper head gaskets, which were expensive to replace; and as I did engine rebuilds annually this was an expensive outlay. I had a box of used gaskets in my garage, and felt there must be something I could do with them.

I used my in-depth knowledge of chemistry & physics to determine the gaskets could be renewed with a little bit of applied work & attention. And this is what I did –eventually.

I used a hand-held butane gas-burner to heat the gaskets to a level where they glowed red-hot. This burned off any impurities, etc, leaving the copper clean - although tarnished to the colour of a light-bronze.

The copper was allowed to cool at room temperature, which left it soft and once again… malleable.

I treated my injector’s washer in exactly the same way, which made it useable once more, except for the fact that some black carbon remained indented onto the surfaces.

Having blasted the copper-washer with intense heat, and allowed it to cool – slowly, I used a No2 file to gently clean the two flat surfaces back to polished copper. See the photo’s.
DSCF1138.JPG
The file’s surface was perfectly flat so no undulations were left.

I reused the washer, and will do the rest the same way, when I work on my other Injectors - should I need to.

The method of heating and allowing the copper to cure is called, annealing. It is a method of softening metal from a super-heated level. It allows us the use of something we may have considered scrap. It enabled me to reuse something that seemed fit for scrap and not much more.

I now have a bag of spare washers.
And I know they are not expensive to buy but when faced with removing and refitting my No4 Injector with no spare copper-washer, I did as I have written and it works.
So there you have it. Recycling at its most basic level. Injector level. :)
And before anyone suggests otherwise, my injector is gas/oil/compression tight & sealed. It really does work. Jeez, I'm a scientist & my work has to be perfect! Don't ask questions, though.
 
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Wow you really do have a boring way of saying ... heat them up to reuse :rolleyes:
Dave, you are so right in what you say. But I do strive to put forward the idea while answering any questions that any may have.
To fully explain should circumnavigate all that can be asked in order to explain to the fullest possible level, thus leaving one in no question of what is being offered.
And if you are a teacher, leave no stone unturned for your students - lest there be questions later.
Might I have earned a GOLD star? lol
 
So you are saying copper needs to be slowly cooled to be annealed?

Cheers
Yes. It can be a bit like iron, where when cooled rapidly can be as hard-as-iron, to quote.
When you watch the movies and the iron-master uses red-hot metal, quenching it into cold water, making it hard - that's why.
Copper works in the same way, although not as hard.
 
Yes. It can be a bit like iron, where when cooled rapidly can be as hard-as-iron, to quote.
When you watch the movies and the iron-master uses red-hot metal, quenching it into cold water, making it hard - that's why.
Copper works in the same way, although not as hard.

Think you may find there is a difference between good old iron and copper , Ferrous should be slow cooled, copper no need to slow cool.

But you are a scientist, so you carry on.

Cheers
 
Think you may find there is a difference between good old iron and copper , Ferrous should be slow cooled, copper no need to slow cool.

But you are a scientist, so you carry on.

Cheers
Actually, there is a difference and the cooling process is quite important. It also involves all metals. They each have different behavioural levels.
Which would you prefer... being hit over the head with a bar of iron or copper?
When a youngster at school, I once asked a chum what the difference was between a hard & a soft wood. When he answered he didn't know I hit him over the head with a piece of soft pine, saying that under exceptional circumstances there might be none - while under other circumstances there were plenty. This is a fundamental reason why we use different materials for varying purposes. And also why we didn't send men to the moon in wooden ships. lol
I was punished for that and suspect he still bears the scar. He did learn though - I think.
 
Actually, there is a difference and the cooling process is quite important. It also involves all metals. They each have different behavioural levels.
Which would you prefer... being hit over the head with a bar of iron or copper?
When a youngster at school, I once asked a chum what the difference was between a hard & a soft wood. When he answered he didn't know I hit him over the head with a piece of soft pine, saying that under exceptional circumstances there might be none - while under other circumstances there were plenty. This is a fundamental reason why we use different materials for varying purposes. And also why we didn't send men to the moon in wooden ships. lol
I was punished for that and suspect he still bears the scar. He did learn though - I think.

What has any of that diatribe got to do with your statement copper needs to be cooled slowly.

Hold on, are you called poprivet or paramount in another life?

Cheers
 
Isn't the rate at which it cools which determines if the metal's crystals have a chance to destress from their high temperature state and settle in a more natural pattern? Thats why quenching steel, which very quickly cools it, locks the metal into a harder condition than it was before before it got heated?

I doubt I'd be faffing around annealing copper washers, but I have seen me working with cunifer pipe when you astart to get a few bends in it, or worse, a few bends slightly off and you try to rework them, become an absolute cow to work with - that I have thought on annealing.
 
Copper can be annealed by cooling quickly
CARBON Steel can be harded by heating and quenching because the grain structure changes when heating and if quenched then the changed state is arrested, then it is often tempered which used to be known as letting down, it actually takes the hardness down to reduce brittleness.
If you heat steel to bright red and then cool it down slowly it will return to the same state as it was before any heat treatment, known as normalizing.
Copper work hardens when you deform it I.e.press the injector tip into it, or bend copper pipe, but it is easily annealed as discussed here.
And just to add I always fit new washers but I anneal them before fitting to take out any work hardening
 
Copper can be annealed by cooling quickly
CARBON Steel can be harded by heating and quenching because the grain structure changes when heating and if quenched then the changed state is arrested, then it is often tempered which used to be known as letting down, it actually takes the hardness down to reduce brittleness.
If you heat steel to bright red and then cool it down slowly it will return to the same state as it was before any heat treatment, known as normalizing.
Copper work hardens when you deform it I.e.press the injector tip into it, or bend copper pipe, but it is easily annealed as discussed here.
And just to add I always fit new washers but I anneal them before fitting to take out any work hardening

Are you arguing with the teacher...LOL.

Seems he disagress with cooling quickly. maybe I was being too subtle to question it.

Cheers
 
Remember that the sealing washer on the injector as to be a snug fit round the nozzle, also they are very cheap to buy at only £4.95 or less four or more.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROVER-75...HERS-PACK-OF-4-BOSCH-COMMON-RAIL/282513521792
Note the pattern of the internal circle of the washer, unless you have a shed load of cars that need washers on them an outlay of £4.95 over years is 0.001 or there about, just not worth the aggro in my opinion.
 
Remember that the sealing washer on the injector as to be a snug fit round the nozzle, also they are very cheap to buy at only £4.95 or less four or more.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/ROVER-75...HERS-PACK-OF-4-BOSCH-COMMON-RAIL/282513521792
Note the pattern of the internal circle of the washer, unless you have a shed load of cars that need washers on them an outlay of £4.95 over years is 0.001 or there about, just not worth the aggro in my opinion.
Its a good point to make, some engines reusing copper washers is going to mean doing the job twice. I've not reused them on any injectors (it's not a job I've had to do many times) but things like banjo unions I pretty much always reuse
 
do you still have you BSA I learnt on a bsa bantam then onto an aerial square 4 then onto a mk11 jag which I could not get insurance for as I was under 24 then a Hillman minx then onto a mini in fact anything with an engine in as long as it went and stopped was ok
 
Copper can be annealed by cooling quickly
CARBON Steel can be harded by heating and quenching because the grain structure changes when heating and if quenched then the changed state is arrested, then it is often tempered which used to be known as letting down, it actually takes the hardness down to reduce brittleness.
If you heat steel to bright red and then cool it down slowly it will return to the same state as it was before any heat treatment, known as normalizing.
Copper work hardens when you deform it I.e.press the injector tip into it, or bend copper pipe, but it is easily annealed as discussed here.
And just to add I always fit new washers but I anneal them before fitting to take out any work hardening

It seems in depth scientific knowledge is no match for basic 3rd year O level metalwork :D:D
 
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