New injector seals, new turner head, or new turner engine+ head?

Afternoon,
Defender 100 doublecab, TD5, '52 plate, 195,000 miles.
Oil level in sump rising. Have changed it, of course. Rise is slow (2mm on dipstick in 400 miles)
Can't smell diesel (but then, I have a terrible sense of smell)
Had injector seals (OEM) within last 20K miles
Vehicle runs well, starts well. (no sign of pressurising of fuel system)
1st step, I'd say, would be change injector seals/O rings again
But after that, is it actually worth the £1400+, plus fitting, on engine of this age?
Recon engine = £4500 (inc AMC head) plus fitting. (plus all the other jobs one feels ought to be done whilst the engine is out! - it's never had a clutch, or DM flywheel...)
But as I'd like to run this vehicle for the next ten years,.....
what do you all think?

sparg said:

Afternoon,
Defender 100 doublecab, TD5, '52 plate, 195,000 miles.
Oil level in sump rising. Have changed it, of course. Rise is slow (2mm on dipstick in 400 miles)
Can't smell diesel (but then, I have a terrible sense of smell)
Had injector seals (OEM) within last 20K miles
Vehicle runs well, starts well. (no sign of pressurising of fuel system)
1st step, I'd say, would be change injector seals/O rings again
But after that, is it actually worth the £1400+, plus fitting, on engine of this age?
Recon engine = £4500 (inc AMC head) plus fitting. (plus all the other jobs one feels ought to be done whilst the engine is out! - it's never had a clutch, or DM flywheel...)
But as I'd like to run this vehicle for the next ten years,.....
what do you all think?

Click to expand...

Not sure what the question is but as the injector O rings have been done recently it would suggest one of two things - either they didn't do it very well and snagged an O ring on installation or one of the injector sockets is cracked (often No.1). Poor quality O rings could also be a culprit.

Injector washers and O rings should cost no more than £50 - get Genuine only. While they are out you can inspect the injector bores for cracks. If (before removing anything else) you take the rocker cover off and put the engine into its fuel purge sequence you may see which injector(s) the fuel is coming from.

I would not bother spending £5k on a recon TD5 engine, there are plenty of good used engines around for about £400.

The O rings were LR genuine, and actually 15K+ miles without apparent problems. That of course doesn't mean they haven't failed again, so agree that would be the first step.
Good tip about going through purge and looking for bubbling diesel.
Really, I was asking for thoughts about the wisdom of spending £1500 on a head (if the current one is actually cracked) on an engine with 200K miles - if my intention is to run it for at least another 100K miles, might I be better to trade for a younger model?
But buying a used lump for £400 - well, how might I 'know' it's any better than the one I have? - especially, in respect of the head, which might crack further down the line.
The shame of it is, the engine pulls like a young 'un - better than it did when I got it 130K miles ago (it used to have a flat spot at the bottom of the revs - I've got rid of that now)

A well looked after TD5 will keep going for as long as you are willing to replace the bits that wear. If the head needs replacing, replace it and carry on. I can see no reason to bin an engine that is otherwise working well and which has a known maintenance history. Certainly not for a £400 used unit of unknown provenance.

Well, another way of looking at it, I suppose, is to ask - whilst carrying out surgery on the engine, what might I reasonably expect should be replaced after 200K miles (in the engine, I mean - eg piston rings, or bottom -end bearings)?

As the problem is described here, it doesn't sound too severe. My TD5 engine is perfectly capable of hiding a litre or two of oil and then finding it again, so the oil level goes up and down. Sometimes I've thought it was looking a bit low and I've put some more in, only to find it is over the top mark on the dipstick next time I look. And then it goes down again. So 2mm in 400 miles is barely anything to notice. If it were 20mm in 400 miles, you might have a problem, particularly if it went up another 20mm in the following 400 miles.
There is a good account of an overhaul of a well used TD5 engine here
https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/at-last-the-big-td5-job.349420/
and you can see just how well things like bearings and bores have withstood high mileage - many of them still seem to have the factory markings on them, rather than be worn out. Ray's major problem was wear in the cam lobes.

So I'd leave it alone until you've got more obvious problems!

Thanks for your thoughts - but the oil is climbing consistently (and, by my last reckoning, is more like 10mm per 400 miles - and it keeps on rising (until I empty the oil again, and refill to just above 'min', which should last me for 10 days, before I have to repeat) - and obviously, oil diluted with diesel isn't a good lubricant. The rocker cover smells of diesel.
I'll try injector seals again, inspecting along the way for any signs of a crack.
Part of my thinking is that if I replace the engine, chassis, gearbox, transfer box back diff, bushes and ancillary bits and bobs (turbo?) - I have a vehicle that should last me well enough for the next ten years...
Of course, I could just buy ordinary cars for the next ten years, but... I love every day driving in the defender (85 miles round trip), whereas, in an ordinary car, it just becomes a commute

I have a coolant leak on my td5 discovery and and sure it is the head, I have a spare head and am thinking most cost effective way to sort it is to send head off to be pressure tested and reconditioned, I think I can find someone to do it for me for about 3 to 4 hundred then fit head, as last head has done 200K if the next one does the same it should last another 20 years? or will there be a leak in the coolant or fuel in the next 6 months?

OK, 10mm consistently increasing is more like a leak. So it is probably worth doing the injector seals again, with the most expensive, most 'genuine' washers and seals you can find.

Brown said:

OK, 10mm consistently increasing is more like a leak. So it is probably worth doing the injector seals again, with the most expensive, most 'genuine' washers and seals you can find.

Click to expand...

Agree with that.
I always anneal the washers by hooking them on a wire and holding them in a gas flame until they are dark blue (no more than that) then plunge into cold water and clean them up with solvol autosol.

My No1 injector pocket cracked causing a runaway, I rebuilt the engine had the head welded, it cracked again after 2000 miles.
Fitted new AMC head from Turners.
If your planning on keeping the car fit the AMC head, you won't have any more concerns then.
As said above, it's easy to spot the if the pocket is cracked, either remove No1 injector and very carefully look for the crack.
Or with the injector in place, WITHOUT starting the engine, do the fuel purge and watch No1 pocket, the leak will appear as a weep of fuel from the side of the pocket, it will take a minute or so to appear.
The weep can fill your sump with 6 litres of fuel in about 500 miles.

The AMC head is pricey but its a far better head than the LR one.

Well, update: I've SORNED this vehicle, put it on layup insurance. Now I'm looking for a wizard/LR enthusiast/specialist, to fit new head - then I'll MOT it and put it up for sale. I'm in South Yorkshire, but haven't yet found someone willing to tackle the diagnostics (to see if it is actually a cracked head, as I suspect). Obviously, it would be excellent if I can find someone who would try to diagnose with the head still in place (if there is a crack, it's leaking into the rocker cover, after all). I don't feel competent to do it myself. If there were no obvious crack, they could simply put the new (OEM) injector seals on, then leave it running a bit to see if diesel smell in rocker cover returns.
Although it runs as smoothly as ever, as it's sorned, I'd have to trailer it to garage, unless it's local enough (and they have trade plates) to fetch it. But I'd rather take it further for the sake of getting a decent mechanic (as against a parts-fitter) than necessarily stay strictly local
So, I suppose my question is - does anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks, all