'03MY L322 Petrol 114k5 miles

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Man, I feel your anguish...
Has a compression test not been done earlier in the diagnosis? Even a pressure test on the Coolant circuit?
I understand that you are using what sounds to be a reasonable garage.
:(
 
Replacement M62 would drop straight in, no ECU issues.

If it has been overheated, I would check the condition of the cylinder bores, as they *may* be in a bad way following overheating. Check out @biketeacherdave 's thread on his engine rebuild following overheating, the bores were shocking.

Here's a quick image.....

img-20180801-wa0003-jpg.154702
 
Mark Piercy said:
Man, I feel your anguish...
Has a compression test not been done earlier in the diagnosis? Even a pressure test on the Coolant circuit?
I understand that you are using what sounds to be a reasonable garage.
:(
Click to expand...

Yes, initially Matt did say that he suspected gasket breakdown, but he'd never come across one without mayo. Oil remains clean, coolant remains clean. His first sniff test told him there was some leakage of exhaust gases into coolant but just a trace. I told him that the barrier rubber in the LPG vaporiser had just been changed and that LPG into the coolant gives the same trace effect. So that could be a remnant of that where not all coolant had been flushed out before refill.

It's still just a trace though. I did ask then for a compression test per cylinder as the midlands build shop asked me to get one. But Matt preferred to replace the existing two blown hoses and take the vaporiser out of the cooling circuit first.

If you know of a good head-off-and-skim workshop up t'north please let me have contact. Otherwise (my history is in Jags and VWs) I don't know who's good and who's bad.

... Jim Bowen on Bullseye: That's it. That's it. You're over onehundred and one. Let's have a look at what you've won: four hundred and sixty three pounds, Bullseye's tankard, key ring, set of darts, Bully's game, all your prizes, and tonight's star prize <audience roar as curtains part> It's a speed boat!
dissapointed contestant: A speedboat? But I live in Rochdale...
 
Saint.V8 said:
Replacement M62 would drop straight in, no ECU issues.

If it has been overheated, I would check the condition of the cylinder bores, as they *may* be in a bad way following overheating. Check out @biketeacherdave 's thread on his engine rebuild following overheating, the bores were shocking.
Click to expand...

I've met biketeacherdave -- he helpfully suggested that I should get my Vaporiser rubber barrier changed first before anything else. His had gone in this same way. But I didn't know it'd taken down his cooling system also leading to the same effects. I took the decision to have that done but didn't realise that I'd be better off with a lower temperature thermostat too. So, replaced my broken one with OEM 110º one. It ran alright, even on LPG for a fortnight: two long trips too. So then decided to have the rear "rose joints" done... and the rest is history.

Good to know I wouldn't have any ECU / IMMO issues then. Would it be simpler to have the box as well still attached at bell housing? Or just the engine lump alone?
 
RichardSEL said:
Yes, initially Matt did say that he suspected gasket breakdown, but he'd never come across one without mayo. Oil remains clean, coolant remains clean. His first sniff test told him there was some leakage of exhaust gases into coolant but just a trace. I told him that the barrier rubber in the LPG vaporiser had just been changed and that LPG into the coolant gives the same trace effect. So that could be a remnant of that where not all coolant had been flushed out before refill.

It's still just a trace though. I did ask then for a compression test per cylinder as the midlands build shop asked me to get one. But Matt preferred to replace the existing two blown hoses and take the vaporiser out of the cooling circuit first.

If you know of a good head-off-and-skim workshop up t'north please let me have contact. Otherwise (my history is in Jags and VWs) I don't know who's good and who's bad.

... Jim Bowen on Bullseye: That's it. That's it. You're over onehundred and one. Let's have a look at what you've won: four hundred and sixty three pounds, Bullseye's tankard, key ring, set of darts, Bully's game, all your prizes, and tonight's star prize <audience roar as curtains part> It's a speed boat!
dissapointed contestant: A speedboat? But I live in Rochdale...
Click to expand...
I'm a bit out of touch at the moment as its a long time since I did anything like that, it just seems steep to me.
Just had a quick look on island and gaskets and bolts (decent quality) come to about 200 quid.
That's still 80 solid hours on it at 40 quid an hour which seems excessive both on the rate and hours.
When I bought my p38 a few years ago, it had had heads done and the bill is still in the car. It was about 700 quid for both sides including skimming.
That all said, if you trust their judgement that it is the head, I'd go with repairing what you have than getting a new lump as you've no idea what you're buying otherwise.
 
RichardSEL said:
I've had the report (and invoice) back from the current workshop.
"Sniffer test failed. Vehicle producing white smoke on start up. Suspect water is getting into cylinder.
Possibly head gaskets or warped heads causing the issue. Cooling system is over pressurising and
around four seperate leaks are present. Advise our repairs are not guaranteed and customer drives
the vehicle away at his own risk."

Far from having my wallet raped, considering the extra hours that've been spent trying to rectify the
faults as far as possible (for example the LPG vaporiser coolant feed has been bypassed -- system disabled by removing fuse) the bill for changing out the electrical 110º thermostat for the mechanical 88º one, and changing out two hoses (one a heater hose difficult to access) has come to £300 including the two new hoses, including the VAT.
No charge for the Murraymints

At some point one has to trust a specialist workshop -- the mechanics there do seem to be serious in their work, so given that the immobiliser / steering column lock problems that plague L322 have been sorted, battery discharge problems sorted, air compressor rebuilt, got an 11-month MOT, tyres with 4k only on them, and it's a fully loaded Vogue with sunroof, orginal 'phone, Bose speakers, leather, suspension and control arms all done, and otherwise clean body have asked them whether in their contacts they know of a replacement M62 engine (with or without gearbox) kicking about specialist breakers.

I will give a merit card to this workshop even though their stock in trade appears to be the high end of the marque.
Y'know them. They have silly names on their bonnet: Overfinch, or have a Ű ostentatiously showing. Matt kept me abrest of what was going on even though he didn't know of the thermostat kludge!

RCV (Roberts Country Vehicles (Nationwide) Ltd
Waterside Garage, Bainbridges Road
East Peckham, Kent TN12 5HH
01632 873 000
email: [email protected]
www.rcv.co.uk

I don't know whether engine changeout will cause issues with ECU security not being matched to the car's IMMO system.
It'd have to be a lump that's still in a doner vehicle soas to run it up to check not buying another duff lump. Guess that changing for a P38 engine or sommat would be nigh on impossible coz of the configuration changes?
I'm not a Range Rover expert.
The alternative is heads off and skim -- for which a workshop in the midlands had quoted me a max figure (without checking yet the per cylinder compressions) of £3,500

Wot's it worth now? Nuffink
Wot's it worth all done? £6 to £7k
Wot's it stand me in now? About £3k inc. purchase

... Yewowwww! :mad:
Click to expand...

@Henry_b

Is it possible to get the Jag lump in or are the fixings totally different?
 
Wazzajnr said:
I'm a bit out of touch at the moment as its a long time since I did anything like that, it just seems steep to me.
Just had a quick look on island and gaskets and bolts (decent quality) come to about 200 quid.
That's still 80 solid hours on it at 40 quid an hour which seems excessive both on the rate and hours.
When I bought my p38 a few years ago, it had had heads done and the bill is still in the car. It was about 700 quid for both sides including skimming.
That all said, if you trust their judgement that it is the head, I'd go with repairing what you have than getting a new lump as you've no idea what you're buying otherwise.
Click to expand...

The problem is that each iteration has more **** to remove and less space to do it. Not had a garage quote in years but I would imagine over £40/hour down south these days?
 
Grrrrrr said:
The problem is that each iteration has more **** to remove and less space to do it. Not had a garage quote in years but I would imagine over £40/hour down south these days?
Click to expand...

Read it and weep ...

https://flexed.co.uk/much-pay-local-mechanic-one-hours-labour/

  1. Surrey – £81.07
  2. London – £77.42
  3. Worcestershire – £77.16
  4. Berkshire – £76.77
  5. Buckinghamshire – £76.65
  6. Middlesex – £75.86
  7. Hertfordshire – £75.40
  8. Kent – £74.81
  9. East Sussex – £72.72
  10. Bedfordshire – £72.39
 
I'm not lost, just wandering around a bit....

Popping across to pay RCV's tab tomorrow, so will ask Matt (if he's in) what further services
regarding head off and skim or changing the M62 lump they can provide. They're not a cheap shop as I've described
-- they mainly deal with top end of the marque where main agents really do rip you off. And provide an
inferior service to the skilled indies IMO

As a laugh, I've had Green Flag's next year's quote in -- £906 :eek: for this car.
But it is payable in interest free instalments :p

But as Wazzarjnr says, unless the lump is still in the doner car and will start, there's no way of knowing what you're buying in advance. Since these M62s seem to be delicate cooling wise due to Range Rover's decision to foist them on an unsuspecting (and 5th Gear reporters that should've known better) public bet there's many out there with exactly the same problem as wot I've got

@Saint.V8 -- are those liners changeable?
 
I've had a machine shop press liners into an M62.
E2KJa9dl.jpg

aWYr6cLl.jpg

Only issue is the cylinder walls are very thin..


Haven't had an problems with the one i bult and fitted though..
 
RichardSEL said:
I'm not lost, just wandering around a bit....

Popping across to pay RCV's tab tomorrow, so will ask Matt (if he's in) what further services
regarding head off and skim or changing the M62 lump they can provide. They're not a cheap shop as I've described
-- they mainly deal with top end of the marque where main agents really do rip you off. And provide an
inferior service to the skilled indies IMO

As a laugh, I've had Green Flag's next year's quote in -- £906 :eek: for this car.
But it is payable in interest free instalments :p

But as Wazzarjnr says, unless the lump is still in the doner car and will start, there's no way of knowing what you're buying in advance. Since these M62s seem to be delicate cooling wise due to Range Rover's decision to foist them on an unsuspecting (and 5th Gear reporters that should've known better) public bet there's many out there with exactly the same problem as wot I've got

@Saint.V8 -- are those liners changeable?
Click to expand...
Don't think they have liners, I think it's a Nicasil coating and not renewable although I did read somewhere that the block could be bored to take liners. Maybe I have got the wrong engine.
 
Datatek said:
Don't think they have liners, I think it's a Nicasil coating and not renewable although I did read somewhere that the block could be bored to take liners. Maybe I have got the wrong engine.
Click to expand...
It's the early ajv8 that suffered with nikasil liner problems.
The M62 by all accounts is quite a strong motor apart from the timing guides.
If I were in the op's position I'd be thinking about rebuilding my own lump and keeping it a while or cutting my losses and buying something a bit newer with the ajv8 in it.
 
Henry_b said:
I've had a machine shop press liners into an M62.


Only issue is the cylinder walls are very thin..

Haven't had an problems with the one i bult and fitted though..
Click to expand...

Interesting, have you had liners fitted and engine all good and running happily now ?

i did a lot of research regarding liners and pistons designed to run in alusil not liking iron liners etc, well the rings rather than the pistons. so shied away from it. as well as liners coming loose due to different material expansion rates and loads of other scare stories. I was looking to build a supercharged m62 which is a really stupid waste of time as you can buy one off the peg from 2005 onwards but i like mine..

The M62 block in the L322 is Alusil, which is basically a 20% ish content high silicon aluminium, the bores are diamond bored and then honed with a final stage felt and special paste process to expose the silicon which is what the pistons run in. Slightest issue and the bores are doomed.

i have a really shagged m62 block in my garage as a donor engine and a BMW 3.5 engine block that i was going to bore out to 4.4. i made the RR engine mounts and had them welded in place and that is as far as i got as i realised i probably have a mental condition that i should resolve first and then see if it is still a good idea.

Richard, if you are considering an engine swap you have nothing to lose by running a leak down test to locate the source of your issue if you can, i think if you have exhaust gas in your cooling system you will be losing some compression that a leak down test should locate, if it is a head gasket problem at all and not something to do with the LPG (which i know nothing about), and then whipping the head off to see what's going on. Do a compression check as well first to get get an idea of the rest of the engines condition.

The labour involved is the timing of the engine afterwards as a lot of the front still has to come off even if you only do one head i guess.

If you are thinking of selling it on as it is , it is basically a really heavy and quite small shed in value so you may as well get a set of spanners and start taking some bits off - i am sure between us we can tell you how to put it back together again :)
 
holidaychicken said:
Interesting, have you had liners fitted and engine all good and running happily now ?

i did a lot of research regarding liners and pistons designed to run in alusil not liking iron liners etc, well the rings rather than the pistons. so shied away from it. as well as liners coming loose due to different material expansion rates and loads of other scare stories. I was looking to build a supercharged m62 which is a really stupid waste of time as you can buy one off the peg from 2005 onwards but i like mine..

The M62 block in the L322 is Alusil, which is basically a 20% ish content high silicon aluminium, the bores are diamond bored and then honed with a final stage felt and special paste process to expose the silicon which is what the pistons run in. Slightest issue and the bores are doomed.

i have a really shagged m62 block in my garage as a donor engine and a BMW 3.5 engine block that i was going to bore out to 4.4. i made the RR engine mounts and had them welded in place and that is as far as i got as i realised i probably have a mental condition that i should resolve first and then see if it is still a good idea.

Richard, if you are considering an engine swap you have nothing to lose by running a leak down test to locate the source of your issue if you can, i think if you have exhaust gas in your cooling system you will be losing some compression that a leak down test should locate, if it is a head gasket problem at all and not something to do with the LPG (which i know nothing about), and then whipping the head off to see what's going on. Do a compression check as well first to get get an idea of the rest of the engines condition.

The labour involved is the timing of the engine afterwards as a lot of the front still has to come off even if you only do one head i guess.

If you are thinking of selling it on as it is , it is basically a really heavy and quite small shed in value so you may as well get a set of spanners and start taking some bits off - i am sure between us we can tell you how to put it back together again :)
Click to expand...

The engine had let go and dropped a Valve, pretty much destroying the piston and bore, a hone was out of the question so the block was machined and liners pressed in..

I was initially weary like yourself, i had the shop use a loctite sleeve retainer which is a fluid used quite often in the Agri world for tractor engines. ]

Only issue with it is, in the absence of oxygen it'll set like concrete, and if you're pressing them in, then stop to adjust the jig or press it most often than not will have set, and you either destroy the liner or have to use a piece of steel and a hammer to smack it out.. ;)

The Engine runs well, it has done quite a bit of towing,

Plenty of power, once the Vanos was sorted out..

H
 
Henry_b said:
The engine had let go and dropped a Valve, pretty much destroying the piston and bore, a hone was out of the question so the block was machined and liners pressed in..

I was initially weary like yourself, i had the shop use a loctite sleeve retainer which is a fluid used quite often in the Agri world for tractor engines. ]

Only issue with it is, in the absence of oxygen it'll set like concrete, and if you're pressing them in, then stop to adjust the jig or press it most often than not will have set, and you either destroy the liner or have to use a piece of steel and a hammer to smack it out.. ;)

The Engine runs well, it has done quite a bit of towing,

Plenty of power, once the Vanos was sorted out..

H
Click to expand...
That’s good to know, what was the liner made out of ? Did you use standard piston and rings ? With such thin walls one of the concerns about pressing is distorting the adjacent bores. Did you do a compression test after ?
The engine I have in my garage has 7 badly damaged bores.
 
holidaychicken said:
That’s good to know, what was the liner made out of ? Did you use standard piston and rings ? With such thin walls one of the concerns about pressing is distorting the adjacent bores. Did you do a compression test after ?
The engine I have in my garage has 7 badly damaged bores.
Click to expand...

Liner was standard steel..

Distorting the adjacent bores was a concern, but nothing untoward happened. ;)

I did a compression test, i'll have to check my notes, but from memory they were well in spec.

Mahle pistons were used.
 
Avidly reading although not fully understanding as not a mechanic (was ships' radio / radar / electronics tech by original trade) However will ask Matt to at least perform the "leak down test" (compression test using compressed air?) and a compression check.

Yes, have had three AJV8 engines in XJ8 Jags of 2001MY. Nikasil stopped in Aug '00 AFAICR -- but if a 2000 Nikasil car had never been run on sulpher fuel (that was phased out nationally that year) then no damage would've happened to cylinders. Only reason I stopped buying XJ8 (one Sport, one 4.0L LWB, one Executive) was that I'd had three! But wot a nice machine:rolleyes:. They're not now the bargain (£3 to £4k and rising) they once were as their fame's spreading...
 
At least ask the question regarding a leak down test, they may tell you different. Can the LPG system cause exhaust gas in the cooling system?
My car and there are also a number of threads that document the M62 showing signs of a failed head gasket that turned out to be poor bleeding of the cooling system. I was sure my head gasket had gone but it was down to the difficulty in bleeding the M62 which I found harder after fitting the 80 Deg mod stat. The auxiliary water pumps fail as mine has which is part of the bleeding process but not essential but raising the front of the car and constantly burping the pipes helps. There are also examples of failed head gasket that was a failed head gasket though.
I read through a huge M62 rebuild thread where even after doing everything ‘right’ including skimmed heads it still leaked so he chucked in some K seal type product and it worked. A head gasket sealer would be a last resort before removing heads but another cheap possibility of salvation.
The RR is an addiction where the answer is rehab and buy a Toyota or certain death, physical or financial by overdose or a related disease acquired trying to fund your habit. :)
I’m in rehab , the problem is still there but under control but I know the slightest slip and I’ll be back trying to wake up island 4x4 in the middle of the night pleading for just one more set of brake callipers :(
Good luck
 
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