Picked up a D90, few questions...

Interceptorxj said:

Frankly I wouldn’t waste my time on a 300tdi it was just a failed attempt at refining the superb but agricultural 200tdi so LR could keep using it in their up market vehicle range. It didn’t do the job leaving the wonderful 200 arguably the best engine ever made by Land Rover.

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Here we go. Always one.

The real driving factor behind not going for a 200tdi is finding a decent one - they are old engines now, at least the 300tdi was still being made up until fairly recently - go for a 200tdi and you are kicking about 25-30 odd years old, you can pick up a 20 year old 300tdi - even newer if you are lucky and someone has brought a foreign market one back into the country.

I don't see how it failed at anything, it is a better engine, does everything the 200 will do but with a tad more refinement and slightly reduced emissions. To all intents and purposes they are really a very similar engine, the 200tdi to me is just too close to the 2.5!

200tdi had is issues, cambelts are more involved to change - coolant drain and pump off, piston removal needs the engine taking out of the vehicle, crank pulleys fall off, oil pump design is poor compared to the 300tdi and the 200tdi's have the cam bearing issue.

Don't get me wrong, I do quite like the 200tdi - but I just prefer the 300tdi and it has it's merits.

Interceptorxj said:

Frankly I wouldn’t waste my time on a 300tdi it was just a failed attempt at refining the superb but agricultural 200tdi so LR could keep using it in their up market vehicle range. It didn’t do the job leaving the wonderful 200 arguably the best engine ever made by Land Rover.

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300 Tdi has a number of design improvements over 200Tdi, and will tend to be newer, for obvious reasons.

Saying " the best engine made by Land Rover", is a bit like saying that VWs were Hitler's best idea!

A 2.5NA was very low stressed, a Td5 has several technical improvements over a Tdi.
But in fact, all the"best" engines made by Rover were petrol.

Turboman said:

300 Tdi has a number of design improvements over 200Tdi, and will tend to be newer, for obvious reasons.

Saying " the best engine made by Land Rover", is a bit like saying that VWs were Hitler's best idea!

A 2.5NA was very low stressed, a Td5 has several technical improvements over a Tdi.
But in fact, all the"best" engines made by Rover were petrol.

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You bring up a good point there Turboman and it's got me thinking, the TD5 is a bloody good engine, it has it's issues too certainly, like the 300tdi had the timing belt issues (OK long ago ironed out and if done properly won't bother people any more so not a permanent issue). A well maintained TD5 with a good fuel system is a nice engine - the only thing that puts me off slightly is the fact I need electricity to make it run and ECU's and sensors - but in an ideal world, I'd have a TD5 in my Defender (I'd keep the 300tdi on hand though!).

Thank you all for the input.

The only 2 main criteria for me are:

Ease of fitment (what parts do I need to buy or get made up to make it fit?) and the take off speed.

My 19J is a nightmare setting off at roundabouts etc.

Which engine would be the best for my criteria? I understand there will be a much wider and more contentious debate but I am speaking of my specific circumstances.thanks

landyv1rgin said:

Thank you all for the input.

Which engine would be the best for my criteria? I understand there will be a much wider and more contentious debate but I am speaking of my specific circumstances.thanks

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To be honest, you should be able to take off just fine, I had the non turbo version of your engine, I drove it for about 4 years without any issue - it was fine for me, I was more or less always within a 80 mile radius of where I lived, frequent 25 mile trip of which almost all of it was on 60mph roads and it was fine. I went up to Inverness in it once, that was the furthest I went, that was a fecking nightmare, it took me about 2 days until I felt right!

I put a 300tdi in because I wanted to make it more suitable for longer journeys and because the injection pump was playing up - I was going to rebuild the pump but a friend had a 300tdi sitting there in a running Disco and it was just too tempting - best move I made.

Whatever you fit you want it to be decent, you ideally want to get a good unit, do the timing belt on it, oil change etc. and fit it. I would therefore go out with the criteria of a good solid, unmolested 200 or 300tdi - the headaches saved from getting a decent running the the first place will outweigh any additional fitting issues. Look out for things like bodged bolts and broken bolts, pulleys that look like ejits with hammers have been involved etc.

You also ideally want an engine that has not been messed with too much - ejits and their injection pump tweaks - plenty of people out there know how to work on engines and tweak things and do it well - but sadly there are too many people who just go in, fecking clueless and start turning things and changing bits and those are the sort of people I just don't want a vehicle or engine from!

Once you find the good engine - then worry about the fitting. If you pick a 200 now, but find only duds (good ones are not that easy to find really) then your stuck with one choice, take a selection of engines and your chances of finding a good one are much higher. Bear in mind an old Disco 200tdi needs the turbo/manifold sorted to clear the bulkhead of a Defender - a 300tdi Disco engine can go in as is.

Can you weld?

discomania said:

You bring up a good point there Turboman and it's got me thinking, the TD5 is a bloody good engine, it has it's issues too certainly, like the 300tdi had the timing belt issues (OK long ago ironed out and if done properly won't bother people any more so not a permanent issue). A well maintained TD5 with a good fuel system is a nice engine - the only thing that puts me off slightly is the fact I need electricity to make it run and ECU's and sensors - but in an ideal world, I'd have a TD5 in my Defender (I'd keep the 300tdi on hand though!).

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I don't think Td5 are too bad, provided you keep on top of servicing, including injector loom and injector seals and washers.
They provide a bit more power and torque than a Tdi, and are quite smooth, being 5 cylinder.
The electronics are fairly basic, although not very good, but most people will be able to figure out how to deal with them with a second hand Nanocom.
In any case, there are plenty of specialist companies that now deal with the keys, ECUs, etc.

Turboman said:

I don't think Td5 are too bad, provided you keep on top of servicing, including injector loom and injector seals and washers.
They provide a bit more power and torque than a Tdi, and are quite smooth, being 5 cylinder.
The electronics are fairly basic, although not very good, but most people will be able to figure out how to deal with them with a second hand Nanocom.
In any case, there are plenty of specialist companies that now deal with the keys, ECUs, etc.

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Yeah, I am considering a TD5 with a standalone ECU - you can use the original with all the other stuff deleted apart from the most basic functions needed to run the engine or you get an aftermarket ECU. That would let me fit a TD5 and just have a basic ECU and a simple ignition switched feed and start wire and it would run.

I might think about this for next years project!

discomania said:

To be honest, you should be able to take off just fine, I had the non turbo version of your engine, I drove it for about 4 years without any issue - it was fine for me, I was more or less always within a 80 mile radius of where I lived, frequent 25 mile trip of which almost all of it was on 60mph roads and it was fine. I went up to Inverness in it once, that was the furthest I went, that was a fecking nightmare, it took me about 2 days until I felt right!

I put a 300tdi in because I wanted to make it more suitable for longer journeys and because the injection pump was playing up - I was going to rebuild the pump but a friend had a 300tdi sitting there in a running Disco and it was just too tempting - best move I made.

Whatever you fit you want it to be decent, you ideally want to get a good unit, do the timing belt on it, oil change etc. and fit it. I would therefore go out with the criteria of a good solid, unmolested 200 or 300tdi - the headaches saved from getting a decent running the the first place will outweigh any additional fitting issues. Look out for things like bodged bolts and broken bolts, pulleys that look like ejits with hammers have been involved etc.

You also ideally want an engine that has not been messed with too much - ejits and their injection pump tweaks - plenty of people out there know how to work on engines and tweak things and do it well - but sadly there are too many people who just go in, fecking clueless and start turning things and changing bits and those are the sort of people I just don't want a vehicle or engine from!

Once you find the good engine - then worry about the fitting. If you pick a 200 now, but find only duds (good ones are not that easy to find really) then your stuck with one choice, take a selection of engines and your chances of finding a good one are much higher. Bear in mind an old Disco 200tdi needs the turbo/manifold sorted to clear the bulkhead of a Defender - a 300tdi Disco engine can go in as is.

Can you weld?

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Thanks for the response. I have a lot of awful roundabouts near me so taking off and reaching 60 to 70 mph are a real need for me.

I have done motorcycle rebuilds so I would say I am handy. I can weld but not neat penny stacks, function over form for sure! What welding needs doing for a disco 300tdi into the 19j?

landyv1rgin said:

Thanks for the response. I have a lot of awful roundabouts near me so taking off and reaching 60 to 70 mph are a real need for me.

I have done motorcycle rebuilds so I would say I am handy. I can weld but not neat penny stacks, function over form for sure! What welding needs doing for a disco 300tdi into the 19j?

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A good 2.5NA, or a 2.5 petrol, should deliver that kind of performance. And require almost no alterations to fit into a 2.5TD Ninety, because they were both standard engines for that vehicle.

landyv1rgin said:

Thanks for the response. I have a lot of awful roundabouts near me so taking off and reaching 60 to 70 mph are a real need for me.

I have done motorcycle rebuilds so I would say I am handy. I can weld but not neat penny stacks, function over form for sure! What welding needs doing for a disco 300tdi into the 19j?

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The nearside engine mount and the rad needs lowering

This was my experience

https://www.landyzone.co.uk/land-rover/disco-300tdi-swap-into-a-90td.273498/

i think there is something wrong with your engine, as i had a 2.5na (basically your engine without the turbo) and it would top out at 68mp on the flat and about 75 down hill, and it has less power than yours. Pulling off was no problem, up to about 40miles an hour it was perfectly acceptable.

i think your engine needs a good service, plus maybe a strip down and rebuild as something is off.

flat said:

i think there is something wrong with your engine, as i had a 2.5na (basically your engine without the turbo) and it would top out at 68mp on the flat and about 75 down hill, and it has less power than yours. Pulling off was no problem, up to about 40miles an hour it was perfectly acceptable.

i think your engine needs a good service, plus maybe a strip down and rebuild as something is off.

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I'll probably give it a service and put some fuel treatment in as it's a touch smokey and see where that gets me. Note that the top speed was an indicated 57 but GPS 50, and it was up a 4% hill.

I will see how it goes after a service etc (oil is very black and I think the filter is probably in need of replacement). Though per above I will probably swap for the 300tdi or 200tdi

discomania said:

Yeah, I am considering a TD5 with a standalone ECU - you can use the original with all the other stuff deleted apart from the most basic functions needed to run the engine or you get an aftermarket ECU. That would let me fit a TD5 and just have a basic ECU and a simple ignition switched feed and start wire and it would run.

I might think about this for next years project!

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Well I'm thinking of replacing my td5 with my 3.5 v8, so there will be one in the offing soon! Runs very well too.... shameless spam...