The slowest P38A DSE in the world?

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Good morning gentlemen, great site you have here and I hope you can help me too!

I have just bought a 1996 P38A 2.5 DSE automatic with 140k miles on her, she came to me via an auction, drives very indeed but she has serious lack of power....and I mean serious.....up a slight incline on the M2 motorway she will do around 40 mph, on the flat she can do all of 50 mph, down hill up to 70/80+ mph! She has a good service history too.
She is all noise and no go, around town it's manageable, but on the B roads, A roads or motorways this thing is dangerous, the slightest hill and it's game over!


So what have we checked?

1/ Starts on the button cold and hot
2/ Idles 100%
3/ Engine picks up very sprightly when revved in neutral, intercooler hoses go fat when revved, the turbo spooling up can be heard too
4/ No blue, white, or black smoke at all cold or hot....even when flooring the throttle there is NO black smoke at all....:confused:
5/ Doesn't overheat, in fact the temp reads too low and never climbs above quarter way
6/ I had my friend code read the car and the only fault was 'start of injection initiation intermitant fault'...this must be a pump injection timing error.....does the M51 engine have a crank sensor? But surely if this was so she would be a pig to start?
7/ When code reading and she is reved on idle the boost does goes up, but seems a little lower than I would expect, but then it's hard to tell with no load on the engine...the highest I saw was 1200 mbar...anyone know what boost these things run.....I'm guessing no more than a .5 bar so maybe this is OK?
8/ She is booked in to see a diesel specialist next Monday in Paddock Wood, the only thing I though about was maybe the boost take off pipe from the manifold maybe blocked, I may just replace the pipe to be sure, I have seen this on a diesel Frontera before?


...although she throws up the timing code error timing appears correct at idle, it seems to me the fuel pump isn't injecting enough fuel when the turbo is spooling up....ohh, and if the timing was out she would still be seeing max fuel and there would be clouds of black...wouldn't there?

I spoke with the previous owner yesterday and he told he owned the car for 5 years and yes, she did this lack of power fault from time to time and he took her to the Land Rover dealer and they cleared "something in the ECU" and it would be OK for a while...what they did he didn't know.
The only problem he did have was when the "intercooler burst" he thinks..the engine bay ended up covered in oil...now that is strange...why would be there so much oil in the intercoole...unless he meant something else...it was at the front of the engine and had 3 holes in it.....doesn't sound like an intercooler does it?

I have had other thoughts, I would also suspect the tank pump BUT she starts too well hot or cold...isn't there a check that can be done by taking off the fuel feed to the filter and keying on to see if fuel is coming up from the tank?

......any thoughts guys.....and help gratefully received, how ever odd too:)

many thanks

Richard
 
The fault sounds like it is referring to the No 4 injector, which has a sensor to detect the ignition cycle. They aren't that expensive to replace either...

Slowest DSE in the world? Now that's no idle boast!
 
Yes, it's a bit of a bugger to replace though as you need a special socket to remove it, as the wire coming off the injector has to be threaded out of the socket. If you're handy with a grinder/drill then it's possible to bastardise a deep socket for the purpose.

It could be No 4 injector, might not be, the fault codes aren't always accurate, but it's a start.
 
Just a thought, unscrew the feed pipe to the fuel pump - turn on the ignition and the fuel should pour out. proves the tank pump is working.
 
Jack under tank, remove cradle, lower tank, replace pump, refit.
Don't forget to drain tank first. :D;)
 
I'd put money on the tank-pump, mine was the same, the easy test is to whip off the filter, switch on the ign, & fuel should flow for several seconds, if not, its the tank-pump, change it & you'll have a rocket-ship!!
 
...........undid the fuel filter drain, then turned on the ignition and there is ample fuel getting from the tank...


she is off to the diesel guy Monday I'll drop you guys a note on the outcome in case anyone else has the same problem in the future.

thanks for your help thus far
 
....this DSE is wierd....I had to leave the car idling for some 15 minutes while I sold a Jeep Cherokee, yes I know shock horror probe....;)


........ and the DSE is now performing well as can be expected, and then when all is well ans the wallet is slipping back in the pocket she will again hit a brick wall, but back off to idle and she flies again.....all I have done is bleed some fuel from the filter which was clean...wierd......could be a filter problem after all this, I need to change this out anyway....

.....but I think I can also hear some rattling from the front of the exhaust....


.....I have had oodles of later BMW's (E-39's, E-36's, E-46, 850's, 728's) with knackered cat's and I'm just wondering if the cat on this DSE has a typical BMW problem too, it has all the symptoms of a blocked cat'...it would account for the lack of black excess fuel smoke as the turbo would spool up then stall, loosing boost pressure and boost fuel....and then....

...I found a full on Land Rover manual thanks to this great site and yes these P38's do indeed have a CKS (crankshaft sensor) a not unknown problem on the M-51 lumps, this is the primary timing source....there is also a timing solenoid in the pump and of course the No.4 injector checks that all is well at the actual point of injection, all this is closed circuit.

this DSE now has my full attention!

...anyone care to chip in with some thoughts please do.

QUESTION:- Does anyone know if these Bosch pumps have a fuel inlet 'thimble filter'?
 
I had the old problem today when my DSE wouldn't run with less than 1/4 full tank, so guess I have a split pick-up pipe in the tank. Do those symptomsring a bell with you at all?
 
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