Got an odd clutch issue and need some help! 2004 TD5 110

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bankz5152

Well-Known Member
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9,126
Location
South London/North Kent
Evening all,

So I was "competing" charity hill climb event today to raise money for kids with special needs. Naturally loaded the big map into the TD5 and gave it a damn good go! It wasnt a dramatic nor a "proper" hill climb, it was actually the entrance to the school.

First run was good but didnt go full power so I could get a feel for what I was doing. The 110 went up brilliantly, surprised and impressed a fair few people with much nicer and much more exotic cars.

Second time round decided to go full send, had it on the limiter and side stepped the clutch, however was a little eager and went before the flag dropped. So braked, dipped the clutch. Then full throttle and side stepped it again. First few feet where fine then went for second and the pedal stayed stuck to the floor, however the gear stick did move into second gear. At this point im still full throttle. Pulled the pedal up with my foot and tried third. Same thing. Could move the gear stick into any gear but it seemed as though I was stuck in first gear. Stopped about 40ft from the start line, let it roll a little and the regained clutch control. Was able to finish the climb and change gear without issue.

Went for a quick drive on the main road, changed gear without issue and drove fine. Pedal felt fine, car felt fine.

Went for a third run, flawless. The 110 worked perfectly no issues at all.

Drove home, booted it in second to say 4k revs and again no issues. About half way home (roughly 4 miles or so) went to pull off from the lights and was revving its bollocks off but not actually going anywhere. Felt exactly like the clutch was slipping heavily, did this in every gear and got much worse as I drove home to the point where i was driving down my road and anything above say 1700rpm and it felt like it was slipping.

For those that dont know I have a TD5inside big tune (say 200ish bhp, maybe 480nm) hybrid turbo, intercooler etc... as well as a newly fitted LOF Extreme spec kevlar clutch. New LUK DMF, LOF Extreme spec CNC Release bearing and the rest of the clutch kit is OEM/Gen. Basically everything that could be replaced was replaced bar the fork (new bush fitted however).

I also fitted an AP slave and TRW Master around 18 months ago. The clutch was fully bed in with 1k miles of old lady driving, 500 miles a with a bit more power and another 1k or so driving normally (generally fairly hard) so should be fully bed in. All this on my "daily tune" (say 150bhp, 380nm or so). Today was the first time since the clutch ive loaded the big tune.

I've spoken to LOF who suggested a new Master & Slave which I have ordered and will fit soon as they arrive.

Currently trying to get to the bottom of what has happened and why, so it can be avoided in the future. Also that I'm off to Marquenterre for some pretty heavy off roading at the end of June and want the 110 running properly. Not only that but it is my daily and I do need it for work!

I have pulled both the master and slave off and both appear to move freely but the master does have a bit of a rattle to it.

Luke from LOF has been excellent so far, responded to me very quickly on a Sunday trying to find out what has happened.


Videos -

Master


Clutch apparently slipping


In cab video showing what happened when the issue first arose.


Any help and suggestions much appreciated!!
 
Thats a bit of a mystery matey,

Sounds like you clutch hydraulics are not behaving, almost as if they were boiling up (like brake fluid) of course thats not the case, but same symptom etc? Maybe bot o grit in the line, grit score on master / slave bore. Almost as if you clutch fluid cant keep up.... I know you only fitted this recently so expect you have nice new clutch fluid and bled lines etc, sounds obvious but worth a try, jam jar and pipe lot cheaper than pulling it all apart?

I guess the clutch needs more ooomf that a normal one, maybe upgrade the pipe diameter / master cylinder?

The only other thing that springs to mind is the slave actuator pin or other part of the clutch mechanism allowing play before pressing on release bearing.

Tis certainly weird though,
 
unless the flywheel is glazed?

As in the DMF?

Thats a bit of a mystery matey,

Sounds like you clutch hydraulics are not behaving, almost as if they were boiling up (like brake fluid) of course thats not the case, but same symptom etc? Maybe bot o grit in the line, grit score on master / slave bore. Almost as if you clutch fluid cant keep up.... I know you only fitted this recently so expect you have nice new clutch fluid and bled lines etc, sounds obvious but worth a try, jam jar and pipe lot cheaper than pulling it all apart?

I guess the clutch needs more ooomf that a normal one, maybe upgrade the pipe diameter / master cylinder?

The only other thing that springs to mind is the slave actuator pin or other part of the clutch mechanism allowing play before pressing on release bearing.

Tis certainly weird though,

Basically the same response as LOF amd my mechanic mates.

I do plan on fitting the td5inside slave soon as its for sale.

But didnt have a problem before
 
Basically the same response as LOF amd my mechanic mates.

I do plan on fitting the td5inside slave soon as its for sale.

But didnt have a problem before[/QUOTE]
 
Evening all,

So I was "competing" charity hill climb event today to raise money for kids with special needs. Naturally loaded the big map into the TD5 and gave it a damn good go! It wasnt a dramatic nor a "proper" hill climb, it was actually the entrance to the school.

First run was good but didnt go full power so I could get a feel for what I was doing. The 110 went up brilliantly, surprised and impressed a fair few people with much nicer and much more exotic cars.

Second time round decided to go full send, had it on the limiter and side stepped the clutch, however was a little eager and went before the flag dropped. So braked, dipped the clutch. Then full throttle and side stepped it again. First few feet where fine then went for second and the pedal stayed stuck to the floor, however the gear stick did move into second gear. At this point im still full throttle. Pulled the pedal up with my foot and tried third. Same thing. Could move the gear stick into any gear but it seemed as though I was stuck in first gear. Stopped about 40ft from the start line, let it roll a little and the regained clutch control. Was able to finish the climb and change gear without issue.

Went for a quick drive on the main road, changed gear without issue and drove fine. Pedal felt fine, car felt fine.

Went for a third run, flawless. The 110 worked perfectly no issues at all.

Drove home, booted it in second to say 4k revs and again no issues. About half way home (roughly 4 miles or so) went to pull off from the lights and was revving its bollocks off but not actually going anywhere. Felt exactly like the clutch was slipping heavily, did this in every gear and got much worse as I drove home to the point where i was driving down my road and anything above say 1700rpm and it felt like it was slipping.

For those that dont know I have a TD5inside big tune (say 200ish bhp, maybe 480nm) hybrid turbo, intercooler etc... as well as a newly fitted LOF Extreme spec kevlar clutch. New LUK DMF, LOF Extreme spec CNC Release bearing and the rest of the clutch kit is OEM/Gen. Basically everything that could be replaced was replaced bar the fork (new bush fitted however).

I also fitted an AP slave and TRW Master around 18 months ago. The clutch was fully bed in with 1k miles of old lady driving, 500 miles a with a bit more power and another 1k or so driving normally (generally fairly hard) so should be fully bed in. All this on my "daily tune" (say 150bhp, 380nm or so). Today was the first time since the clutch ive loaded the big tune.

I've spoken to LOF who suggested a new Master & Slave which I have ordered and will fit soon as they arrive.

Currently trying to get to the bottom of what has happened and why, so it can be avoided in the future. Also that I'm off to Marquenterre for some pretty heavy off roading at the end of June and want the 110 running properly. Not only that but it is my daily and I do need it for work!

I have pulled both the master and slave off and both appear to move freely but the master does have a bit of a rattle to it.

Luke from LOF has been excellent so far, responded to me very quickly on a Sunday trying to find out what has happened.


Videos -

Master


Clutch apparently slipping


In cab video showing what happened when the issue first arose.


Any help and suggestions much appreciated!!


Out of interest what made you decide to have the popcorn limiter? At what revs does that cut in?
 
slave is cheap and easy to do, reverse bleed etc.
Master is a PIA to get out but again easy to do, checked the fat flexi for pin hole?
 
Out of interest what made you decide to have the popcorn limiter? At what revs does that cut in?

Was TD5Insides signature on their big maps before everyone copiee them

slave is cheap and easy to do, reverse bleed etc.
Master is a PIA to get out but again easy to do, checked the fat flexi for pin hole?

Both are already off! Wil check for a hole somehow but good idea!!

You selling the 110?

Cheers

Haha hopefully never!
 
a badly adjusted master cylinder push rod can result in fluid not returning quickly enough or not at all meaning there slave cylinder pressure on the clutch allowing slip

Ahhh and James that is a brilliant place to start!!

The master was not adjusted when the new clutch went in. When i change it I will makre sure i properly adjust it.
 
Top end. So roughly 4700

I am not convinced they are good for the engine/crank. When I enquired about how it works I was told “it is only done electronically” and it comes in below 4000rpm, and it must be ok because rally cars have them. I swiftly went with another company, he didn’t come across as someone who knew what he was on about. Cutting the fuel may be controlled electronically but it is a physical thing.
 
a badly adjusted master cylinder push rod can result in fluid not returning quickly enough or not at all meaning theres slave cylinder pressure on the clutch allowing slip

That said would i not have experienced something similar before now?

I am not convinced they are good for the engine/crank. When I enquired about how it works I was told “it is only done electronically” and it comes in below 4000rpm, and it must be ok because rally cars have them. I swiftly went with another company, he didn’t come across as someone who knew what he was on about. Cutting the fuel may be controlled electronically but it is a physical thing.

Rally cars have antilag which is different.

It is done thru mapping. I have heard the same before however that was from a tuner that didnt know how to do it.
 
It doesn’t really matter how it’s done, it’s still cutting the fuel at full throttle ?

I dont know exactly how it works but it is on 1000s of cars running high mileage and race trucks without incident. I dont sit on it day in day out, just when having some fun or some hard off roading. Done by a proper tuner who wouldnt have put it on if it was going to ruin reliability. Ive done around 30k in my 110 since and no problems engine wise.

slave is cheap and easy to do, reverse bleed etc.
Master is a PIA to get out but again easy to do, checked the fat flexi for pin hole?

For £5 ordered a new one.
 
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