Freelander won't start

my freelander 1 has developed a fault. I just stopped outside my house turned the ignition off then 5 minutes later got back in and it won't start. The starter isn't even turning but the relevant dash light come on with the ignition. The weired thing was, when I turned it off, the radio continued playing even with the key out of the ignition. I had a new starter fitted a couple of weeks ago, so this is my No 1 suspect, strange about the radio though. I've had a quick look at the wiring to the starter and that seems ok, so too is the battery. It's pizzing down at the moment so I don't want to open the fuse box. Any ideas anyone?

Col

Taking the 2 faults together I'd say check the ignition switch first ! Maybe contacts have broken and this is allowing the accessory position to make contact when it shouldn't and the starter to not make contact when it should !! Simple voltage check at the switch or check the feed to the starter spade connector- this should be 12 v when cranking.

I agree with Andy. The only common component to the 2 faults is the ignition switch.

Yes, I'm beginning to suspect the switch too. If I connect a wire between the positive terminal of the battery and the small spade on the starter, will it turn the starter?

Col

Yes it should do ! Ensure it is not in gear or if auto any other than park or neutral as you are overriding the inhibitor controls.

andyfreelandy said:

Yes it should do ! Ensure it is not in gear or if auto any other than park or neutral as you are overriding the inhibitor controls.

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Just tried connecting the small spade on the starter to the positive of the battery and all I got was sparks as I connected it. The relay is ok. There is a faint clicking noise when the ignition is on but it doesn't seem to be coming from the relays in the fuse box. The mot is due next week and the tax runs out at the end of the month. I'm seriously considering scrapping it and buying an fl2. If it's the ignition switch it will probably cost as much as the car is worth. I'll try to get the starter out tomorrow weather permitting, from what I can see of it there appears to be a burnt looking cable going into the body of the starter, not the bolt on one.

Col

I don't think the ignition switch is that expensive - its not the whole barrel, just the plastic switch bit that plugs on the end.

GrumpyGel said:

I don't think the ignition switch is that expensive - its not the whole barrel, just the plastic switch bit that plugs on the end.

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I will know more later when I remove enough stuff to get a good look at the starter, there is a short, unsheathed, braided cable that seems to go from the solenoid and into the body of the starter, it looks burnt and black instead of copper coloured. I'm assuming it's an earth. I'm not sure how a faulty switch could have caused that. Also, when I disconnected the wire from the small spade which is the 12v feed to the solenoid and connected the spade to the battery, it arced suggesting a short circuit in the solenoid. I got my local garage to change the starter cos I though it needed doing from underneath but looking at it, it seems that it can be removed from the above after removing the air filter box.

Col

I remember now why I get the local garage to work on the car. How the hell do you get those stupid clips off that hold the rubber pipes to the air filter box? The + battery terminal nut is very tight but the clamp is turning on the post! I've undone the top bolt that holds the starter in but the nut has dropped between the engine and sump tray, grrr! Should I only see 12v on the small spade when the key is turned to the start position rather than ignition on position. Rain has stopped play at the moment.

Col

12v when cranking only.

Flossie said:

12v when cranking only.

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Ta, I thought so. I think I can rule out the ignition switch. 80,000 miles and 3 starter motors, soon to become 4. Who is making this ****e.

Col

Sounds like the replacement starter may be suspect. If false feed on small lucas terminal does not make it work and a cable is burnt. Just the solenoid takes a good 7 to 8 Amps so it will spark. Fit a temp cable with a spade on and false feed to battery. If that doesn't crank then back to garage that did work!!

andyfreelandy said:

Sounds like the replacement starter may be suspect. If false feed on small lucas terminal does not make it work and a cable is burnt. Just the solenoid takes a good 7 to 8 Amps so it will spark. Fit a temp cable with a spade on and false feed to battery. If that doesn't crank then back to garage that did work!!

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The trouble is getting it back to the garage, I'd have to tow it there.

Col

Colthebrummie said:

The trouble is getting it back to the garage, I'd have to tow it there.

Col

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Or bump start it.

Nodge68 said:

Or bump start it.

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The trouble is, I parked it in a really awkward place before it conked out, it would take about 4 people to push it out to a point where it could be towed. It has been one of those situations where everything has gone wrong. It would be funny if it was someone else's problem. I'm going to get the starter out if it ever stops raining and get a better one than the garage fitted, then I'll take the old one back to the garage to get a refund. The Haines manual is useless, it hints that you have to get it out from underneath. I just need to grow my right arm by about eight inches and grow an extra wrist so that I can reach the bottom bolt. I think it would have been quicker to whip the engine out.

Col

Ive got the starter out and I'm amazed at how small and light it is compared to the one from my series and every other starter I've handled. No wonder the damn things keep failing, I've seen bigger motors on sewing machines.

Col

Colthebrummie said:

Ive got the starter out and I'm amazed at how small and light it is compared to the one from my series and every other starter I've handled. No wonder the damn things keep failing, I've seen bigger motors on sewing machines.

Col

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The Freelander uses a permanent magnet, gear reduction starter, so doesn't need to be large.
The life of these small, high torque starters is probably reduced however.

The cost of the starter the garage fitted two weeks ago was less than £100 which I thought was cheap, the one I've ordered is £170 so hopefully it will be better quality. It's being delivered today so all should soon be good.

Col

The new starter is on and everything is now fine, except when I was putting the tools away, I realised I'd forgotten to fit the bracing bar, doh! Ah well, I expect I'll be fitting another new starter in a few weeks. How do you reattach those clips that secure the air pipes to the filter box? Is there a special tool? To undo it I used a small screw driver and some bad temper.

Col

Colthebrummie said:

The new starter is on and everything is now fine, except when I was putting the tools away, I realised I'd forgotten to fit the bracing bar, doh! Ah well, I expect I'll be fitting another new starter in a few weeks. How do you reattach those clips that secure the air pipes to the filter box? Is there a special tool? To undo it I used a small screw driver and some bad temper.

Col

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I thought they were just clips that your pull/push over to snap tight - leaving a clip shaped indentation in your fingers!