Transmission 'clunk'

Since owning my Landrover (1997 300tdi 110)I have always had to be careful changing gear, the gearbox works fine – never had an issue selecting gear etc. However, when I release my foot off the accelerator there was a slight jolt or jump, then if I did ‘normal modern car’ style gear changes i.e foot up off the clutch quickly then gas on there was a small clunk, I stopped this by driving properly and releasing the clutch slowly and applying acceleration slowly at the same time.

More recently this has got worse and the Landover just had work done (including a 40mm lift) which has certainly made the noise a lot worse. A solid clunk sound occurs under the following situations:

• When going up gears (most noticeably 2nd to 3rd)
• When the engine is struggling with a gear i.e. when I am driving in a 30mph zone in 4th gear as 3rd seems to be too low
• Occasionally when idling towards a stop when in gear but no acceleration applied

There are other times that it happens too, but for the most part this is when it happens. Driving carefully, purposefully and properly – slow, smooth gear changed, gradually pulling away at junctions etc really does help and this is what I am doing at the moment.

My issue is though, that this clunk sounds bad you can feel it in the vehicle as well as hear it, so I want to stop it – or at least make it slightly less scary!

So far I have been underneath, handbrake on and found the following – no movement in rear UJ’s, no rotation in rear prop, no lateral movement in rear prop. No movement in front UJ’s, no lateral movement in front prop, but the front prop rotates about an inch or so. I then repeated the same but with the handbrake off and found no movement in any UJ, no lateral movement in both prop. But both props rotated about an inch to an inch and a half.

I am no mechanic, and very inexperienced when it comes to anything mechanical, but what I conclude is that the props and UJs are probably alright and the cause is more than likely the output shafts (?) on the transfer box and the differentials – worn components and the ‘clunk’ is the slack being taken up.

I have a road rip coming up for 18 days, we will probably cover 1500 miles, annoyingly we are leaving this Friday so no time to work on the problem and I think the best solution at the moment is being careful when driving. I have read a few posts by people with similar problems and the problem seems common and the solutions often seems to be ignoring it, so am I okay to just turn the radio up?

Once I am back I plan to sort this issue though. My though process is as follows, once the clunk is eliminated I will stop going down the list:

• Change prop shafts and UJ’s, though this is probably not the cause of the issue I have wanted to upgrade my prop shafts anyway due to the lift.
• Change transfer case output shafts.
• Change half shafts (upgrade them to HD ones to allow for larger tyres in the future – maybe).
• Look at differentials (???)
• Get someone who actually knows what they are doing in….

Is that a sensible approach? Am I missing anything? Where is the best place to start?

I am aware than many people have this issue and simply choose to ignore it, though for the meantime I am doing just that I am concerned about the additional wear and tear this will have on other transmission components.

It's not ya engine or gearbox mountings is it? My series does the same and I think it's the mountings.

Col

Colthebrummie said:

It's not ya engine or gearbox mountings is it? My series does the same and I think it's the mountings.

Col

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I have my 'staff' checking that right now! By staff I mean my partner as she took it to work.... well it was nice knowing you!
I will check them, but from what I remember they are okay. Surely if it was the mountings wouldn't the noise in the cab be louder?

19_Hue_95 said:

I have my 'staff' checking that right now! By staff I mean my partner as she took it to work.... well it was nice knowing you!
I will check them, but from what I remember they are okay. Surely if it was the mountings wouldn't the noise in the cab be louder?

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Spose it would depend on how bad they might be. My series makes a lot of noise all over so it's easy to ignore the odd clunk when I change gear.

Col

Just checked and they look fine to me, I will check properly later.
Its a special sort of clunk, not a 'its a 20 year old landrover clunk' its more of a 'oh s*** what just fell off clunk'

They do look ok but you need a pry bar to really tell. It looks like you are back to your list again. New props and uj's won't hurt and at least it will eliminate one possibility.

Col

Mine did that until I changed the ball joint on top of the diff and put new bushes in the two arms which connect to it.
Must have been clanking a while the long bolts which attach the arms to the ball joint were actually bent and a real pig to get out.

raywin said:

Mine did that until I changed the ball joint on top of the diff and put new bushes in the two arms which connect to it.
Must have been clanking a while the long bolts which attach the arms to the ball joint were actually bent and a real pig to get out.

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I have heard a lot of people say that, when I had the suspension lift the old self levelling unit was taken off and a new ball joint put on, now the clunk was there before this so there is certainly something else causing at least part of it. But since the lift / new ball joint there has been an increasing frequency and volume of clunking so its a possibility. How do you check that it is serviceable?

19_Hue_95 said:

I have heard a lot of people say that, when I had the suspension lift the old self levelling unit was taken off and a new ball joint put on, now the clunk was there before this so there is certainly something else causing at least part of it. But since the lift / new ball joint there has been an increasing frequency and volume of clunking so its a possibility. How do you check that it is serviceable?

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The ball joint is usualy a change it out for a new one job, there are some which can be adjusted to compensate for wear like this one:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Adjustab...867880&hash=item56654aa48d:g:eUcAAOSwNZtZ238B
You can just buy the ball joint on its own but fitting it is another story:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rov...822160&hash=item439c9a0fe0:g:u-EAAOSwAC1aKkFd
Most buy the ball joint and braket as one part which is much easier:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Land-Rov...258627?hash=item4417dee0c3:g:OXAAAOSwAbhajqeV

I just added the links to show the different ones I dont know if these are the best going, a bit of googling may show some better ones.
Check yours out before jumping in and look at the bushes on the other end of the A frame arms they get some hammer.

Have you checked your drive members at the wheels? I improved clonks in mine by changing the rears

The area that's most affected by your lift is the ujs - because they're now working at a larger angle, so they're a good place to start.

And did you check the sliding splined joints in the props?

If you search ‘mainshaft spline wear r380’ you could find some useful info as yours is the right age to have this problem
Ashcroft transmissions have very informative website too.

I had an un-related issue the other day and jacked up the rear wheels, the play in them is huge. I can get about 4 inches of movement in the wheels before the propshaft even flinches.
There are a few things which I want to do in the future i.e. bigger tyers. So the plan at the moment is start at the rear end (where I think the problem is) and gradually work forwards, I have driven the 110 solidly for the last two weeks and the clunk seems to move slighlty under different circumstances so I am hoping at this stage that components are just worn out (it has done 210000 miles!).

So the first thing on the cards is new half shafts (upgraded, HD ones suitable for the larger tyres), then move onto prop shafts & UJS suitable for a lift.
For the moment I am ruling out A-frame ball joint as its new (I will still give it a check over anyway).
A friend of mine told me that a likely cause is drive flanges (??) - i.e. the bit where the diff meets the prop shaft. Based on where the noise 'generally' is and the play I have felt I am thinking he might be onto something.

19_Hue_95 said:

I had an un-related issue the other day and jacked up the rear wheels, the play in them is huge. I can get about 4 inches of movement in the wheels before the propshaft even flinches.
There are a few things which I want to do in the future i.e. bigger tyers. So the plan at the moment is start at the rear end (where I think the problem is) and gradually work forwards, I have driven the 110 solidly for the last two weeks and the clunk seems to move slighlty under different circumstances so I am hoping at this stage that components are just worn out (it has done 210000 miles!).

So the first thing on the cards is new half shafts (upgraded, HD ones suitable for the larger tyres), then move onto prop shafts & UJS suitable for a lift.
For the moment I am ruling out A-frame ball joint as its new (I will still give it a check over anyway).
A friend of mine told me that a likely cause is drive flanges (??) - i.e. the bit where the diff meets the prop shaft. Based on where the noise 'generally' is and the play I have felt I am thinking he might be onto something.

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At 210k it is only just about run in!
Even with everything new there will always be an element of slack in the drive train so the fact there is movement before the propshaft turns is quite normal, it is the amount of movement that you need to watch, more and art than science. I would start with inspecting the drive flanges at the same time you can inspect the ends of the half shaft and see what the teeth on that look like. The drive flange is softer so should wear rather than the half shaft and new drive flanges as they are very cheap and easy to replace. If the drive flange teeth are pointed it is well past is best and will need replacing:

Old vs new (pics from google)



I personally am dubious about fitting HD drive flanges and shafts. With the standard setup the drive flange is the weakest link. In the event of a failure the flange will strip. This is a cheap easy fix. If you fit HD flanges and shafts, the weak link is going to be the diff, this is expensive and difficult to replace. I have a similar view with steering rods, they are weak and bend, but can then be straightened with a hammer or a strap to get you home, fit HD and the failure point is a TRE breaking or the steering box failure, far more expensive and not fixable in the field. Unless you are going to upgrade the entire axles system I would leave it standard. and even doing the whole system the weak point would then move to the tranferbox etc, there will always be a weakest link and you want it to be something cheap and easy to replace! I ran 35x12.5 tyres for a long time on the standard axles and never had any problem so just because you want larger wheels does not mean you need HD anything.

dag019 said:

At 210k it is only just about run in!
Even with everything new there will always be an element of slack in the drive train so the fact there is movement before the propshaft turns is quite normal, it is the amount of movement that you need to watch, more and art than science. I would start with inspecting the drive flanges at the same time you can inspect the ends of the half shaft and see what the teeth on that look like. The drive flange is softer so should wear rather than the half shaft and new drive flanges as they are very cheap and easy to replace. If the drive flange teeth are pointed it is well past is best and will need replacing:

Old vs new (pics from google)

I personally am dubious about fitting HD drive flanges and shafts. With the standard setup the drive flange is the weakest link. In the event of a failure the flange will strip. This is a cheap easy fix. If you fit HD flanges and shafts, the weak link is going to be the diff, this is expensive and difficult to replace. I have a similar view with steering rods, they are weak and bend, but can then be straightened with a hammer or a strap to get you home, fit HD and the failure point is a TRE breaking or the steering box failure, far more expensive and not fixable in the field. Unless you are going to upgrade the entire axles system I would leave it standard. and even doing the whole system the weak point would then move to the tranferbox etc, there will always be a weakest link and you want it to be something cheap and easy to replace! I ran 35x12.5 tyres for a long time on the standard axles and never had any problem so just because you want larger wheels does not mean you need HD anything.

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What he said. Be careful upgrading stuff to ‘HD’. It’s not how things were meant to be and unless it’s a recognised weak point (e.g. non cross drilled input gear on LT230 or HD clutch fork) or you have a specific situation in mind leave it as standard. Add HD often just adds to the cost.

dag019 said:

At 210k it is only just about run in!
Even with everything new there will always be an element of slack in the drive train so the fact there is movement before the propshaft turns is quite normal, it is the amount of movement that you need to watch, more and art than science. I would start with inspecting the drive flanges at the same time you can inspect the ends of the half shaft and see what the teeth on that look like. The drive flange is softer so should wear rather than the half shaft and new drive flanges as they are very cheap and easy to replace. If the drive flange teeth are pointed it is well past is best and will need replacing:

Old vs new (pics from google)

I personally am dubious about fitting HD drive flanges and shafts. With the standard setup the drive flange is the weakest link. In the event of a failure the flange will strip. This is a cheap easy fix. If you fit HD flanges and shafts, the weak link is going to be the diff, this is expensive and difficult to replace. I have a similar view with steering rods, they are weak and bend, but can then be straightened with a hammer or a strap to get you home, fit HD and the failure point is a TRE breaking or the steering box failure, far more expensive and not fixable in the field. Unless you are going to upgrade the entire axles system I would leave it standard. and even doing the whole system the weak point would then move to the tranferbox etc, there will always be a weakest link and you want it to be something cheap and easy to replace! I ran 35x12.5 tyres for a long time on the standard axles and never had any problem so just because you want larger wheels does not mean you need HD anything.

Click to expand...

That’s really good advice thank-you, I never thought how adding HD replacements would affect it, but you are total right and its obvious come to think about it. I don’t want silly large tyers, just something to fill the wheel arch better – my thought for upgrading to HD was reduce the component wear, but like you say the wear will always be there, it just depends on which item it is wearing. Drive flanges looks like a good place to start, I am not desperate to change the half shafts as I hear that’s a bit of a pig of a job.

19_Hue_95 said:

That’s really good advice thank-you, I never thought how adding HD replacements would affect it, but you are total right and its obvious come to think about it. I don’t want silly large tyers, just something to fill the wheel arch better – my thought for upgrading to HD was reduce the component wear, but like you say the wear will always be there, it just depends on which item it is wearing. Drive flanges looks like a good place to start, I am not desperate to change the half shafts as I hear that’s a bit of a pig of a job.

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What tyres do you currently have fitted? I run 265/75/16 and the fill the arches quite happily, also 235/85/16 also will although a bit narrower. When you were talking larger tyres I assumed you were thinking 33" or larger.
Half shafts is an easy job on the rear, but to do the fonts you have to split the steering swivel to get the cv joint out and then remove the CV, not too bad a job, but certainly more involved. But you may not need them, inspect them when you do the drive flange, but I would not be surprised if just replacing them makes a marked improvement, especially if they are the original set.

19_Hue_95 said:

That’s really good advice thank-you, I never thought how adding HD replacements would affect it, but you are total right and its obvious come to think about it. I don’t want silly large tyers, just something to fill the wheel arch better – my thought for upgrading to HD was reduce the component wear, but like you say the wear will always be there, it just depends on which item it is wearing. Drive flanges looks like a good place to start, I am not desperate to change the half shafts as I hear that’s a bit of a pig of a job.

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I changed out the Flanges and Half Shafts on my previous 90, it was honestly one of the simpler tasks to complete.
Having identified the failure by jacking up the rear axle and rotating the wheels in and out of gear, the fix took probably a couple of hours including plenty of tea and biscuits.
There are some very helpful clips on YouTube that are almost real time....

Yes, that's similar to mine. It's apt to clunk on taking up drive unless you're very gentle with the clutch and the accelerator. The biggest improvement is when I put new drive flanges on the rear hubs. The splines in the flanges wear a little quicker than those on the half shafts. Generally speaking the point at which it is advisable to do this is a matter of personal preference. They can be quite far gone before the teeth start jumping. Some models had half shafts where the drive flange was forged on so they were all in one piece and some people prefer these because that's one less source of slack. There's a little more improvement when you change the flanges at the front but the rears make the biggest difference. I prefer the aftermarket ones with a screw on cap, so you can put oil in so as to lubricate the splines, which makes them last a bit longer.