Really Hard To Start
- Thread starter Taza
- Start date
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brianconwy
Well-Known Member
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- 1,112
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- conwy, north wales
When you say its hard to start, do you mean it turns over but is then reluctant to start?
Yes turns over fine but reluctant to start, once started it runs great, if I stop for a while and the engine is still warm its still reluctant to start.
I have the Nano tool is there anything I could check for.
Should I be able to hear the fuel pump running in the back of the car ?
I have the Nano tool is there anything I could check for.
Should I be able to hear the fuel pump running in the back of the car ?
Could be any of the following
Injector washers
Pump
air bleed
non return valve
Filter
Was the filter changed recently
Yes - Go to bleed cycle test.
No - change it and bleed cycle with test. If yes leave for a day then start on bleed cycle again.
Does it start easily after a bleed cycle?
No - pump
Yes - Does it smoke quite a bit for a second or so after firing, or a big puff of smoke
Yes - Injector washers
No - Check around the filter block and its little bits such as non return and air bleed
Is it OK now?
Yes - great
No - find a TD5 guru
Injector washers
Pump
air bleed
non return valve
Filter
Was the filter changed recently
Yes - Go to bleed cycle test.
No - change it and bleed cycle with test. If yes leave for a day then start on bleed cycle again.
Does it start easily after a bleed cycle?
No - pump
Yes - Does it smoke quite a bit for a second or so after firing, or a big puff of smoke
Yes - Injector washers
No - Check around the filter block and its little bits such as non return and air bleed
Is it OK now?
Yes - great
No - find a TD5 guru
Si Click
Well-Known Member
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- 1,503
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- Lincolnshire
If none of the above work have a look at the DTCs with the Nano (in fact do that anyway 
).
What state is the battery in? If the voltage is too low the ECU will not supply current to the injectors.
If it runs fine once starting, it is unlikely to be the ECU itself, but check for a Top Switch error anyway.
Similarly if the fuel pump is faulty and not supplying 4psi in the high pressure line the engine would not run at all, so the fuel pump is probably fine. Fuel pressure check would tell you for sure.
Alternatively, it could be that the ECU is working fine, but correctly preventing the engine from starting in response to a sensor input. The only sensor that would cause the ECU to do this is the Crank Position Sensor (CPS). Is there anything in the DTCs relating to the crank sensor? If so, you might want to start by replacing it, they are cheap and easy to access. But a faulty CPS would probably prevent the engine running at all, so what you seem to have is a transitory fault that only occurs during start.
The solenoid connections in the starter motor could be pitted and worn causing arcing. This can create electromagnetic interference that can affect the signal from the CPS. Obviously, this is only an issue when starting, and as the engine runs fine once it is started, this is your most likely fault IMHO. The starter can be a pain to remove due to poor access to the top bolt. Having one person underneath to feed up the socket and extension bar and then work the ratchet, with someone else with slim forearms above to connect the socket to the bolt and provide ratchet resistance, works for me. A temporary fix can be done by cleaning the contacts with a Dremel, but given how much of a pain it is to remove the starter, you might want to invest a tenner in a repair kit before you start. Good luck, let us know how you get on.
). What state is the battery in? If the voltage is too low the ECU will not supply current to the injectors.
If it runs fine once starting, it is unlikely to be the ECU itself, but check for a Top Switch error anyway.
Similarly if the fuel pump is faulty and not supplying 4psi in the high pressure line the engine would not run at all, so the fuel pump is probably fine. Fuel pressure check would tell you for sure.
Alternatively, it could be that the ECU is working fine, but correctly preventing the engine from starting in response to a sensor input. The only sensor that would cause the ECU to do this is the Crank Position Sensor (CPS). Is there anything in the DTCs relating to the crank sensor? If so, you might want to start by replacing it, they are cheap and easy to access. But a faulty CPS would probably prevent the engine running at all, so what you seem to have is a transitory fault that only occurs during start.
The solenoid connections in the starter motor could be pitted and worn causing arcing. This can create electromagnetic interference that can affect the signal from the CPS. Obviously, this is only an issue when starting, and as the engine runs fine once it is started, this is your most likely fault IMHO. The starter can be a pain to remove due to poor access to the top bolt. Having one person underneath to feed up the socket and extension bar and then work the ratchet, with someone else with slim forearms above to connect the socket to the bolt and provide ratchet resistance, works for me. A temporary fix can be done by cleaning the contacts with a Dremel, but given how much of a pain it is to remove the starter, you might want to invest a tenner in a repair kit before you start. Good luck, let us know how you get on.
Guys
On Nano no alarms showing,
Carried out the bleed cycle and it started,switched engine of and on a few times and started OK ( white smoke)
So left it for 2 hours and it started first time,will see how it goes in the morning,
This has been going on for a while but gradually got worse,
Over the last few weeks I have heard the fuel pump quealing sometimes when starting but not all the time.
Tonight when carrying out the bleed test at first I couldn’t here the pump squealing but half way through the test it started quelling
Will keep you posted
Taza
On Nano no alarms showing,
Carried out the bleed cycle and it started,switched engine of and on a few times and started OK ( white smoke)
So left it for 2 hours and it started first time,will see how it goes in the morning,
This has been going on for a while but gradually got worse,
Over the last few weeks I have heard the fuel pump quealing sometimes when starting but not all the time.
Tonight when carrying out the bleed test at first I couldn’t here the pump squealing but half way through the test it started quelling
Will keep you posted
Taza
neilly
Well-Known Member
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- 20,000
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- Oxfordshireness
I think you mean 4 bar, and I have had a fuel pump fail on the hi pressure side, was only supplying lo pressure and flow But the car still ran, just had no guts. Only after a filter change it would not start at all.
Cheers
dstainton
Well-Known Member
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- 301
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- Fort Saint James Canada
Air getting in after you stop motor? If u crack open an injector while someone else cranks it you should get immediate fuel at injector. If not air is getting in somewhere.. (I think)
neilly
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Si Click
Well-Known Member
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- Lincolnshire
I do indeed mean 4 bar. Thank you.
Point still remains though, the engine will not run properly if the fuel pump is seriously ****ed.
Taza's latest post does sound like aerated fuel though. Swapping out the bleed valve on the filter and replacing the washers and o rings on the injectors would be a good start.
neilly
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True will not run correctly , but it will run................that was my point., not quite what you stated .....
Cheers
Si Click
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- Lincolnshire
Fair play, I shall be more precise with my language.
Approx 1pm today it started after a few goes,so still something wrong,I already had bought a genuine complete filter housing so decided to swap it,the unit didn't come with the non return valve so i bought one.
The white air bleed valve came with the unit, when I removed the old unit the white air bleed valve was in the left front position fitting ? thought this should be in the rear position ?
removed the rear left fitting and nothing inside.
So I fitted the new unit with the white air bleed in the rear left position fitting and the black non return in the front left position.
went through the bleed cycle and it would not start so tried the bleed cycle again and still would not start
so removed the black non return valve from the rear left position and fitted the white air bleed valve, I didn't put the non return valve in the front left position. so its now how it was but with new filter housing.
carried out bleed cycle and it started, will see how it performs tomorrow.
Why is the black non return valve called this as its just a hole going straight through the fitting ? left this out
This filter unit has never been changed since I have owned the car (5 years) there is only me who has changed the fuel filter and that was 1 year ago
any help appreciated
Taza
The white air bleed valve came with the unit, when I removed the old unit the white air bleed valve was in the left front position fitting ? thought this should be in the rear position ?
removed the rear left fitting and nothing inside.
So I fitted the new unit with the white air bleed in the rear left position fitting and the black non return in the front left position.
went through the bleed cycle and it would not start so tried the bleed cycle again and still would not start
so removed the black non return valve from the rear left position and fitted the white air bleed valve, I didn't put the non return valve in the front left position. so its now how it was but with new filter housing.
carried out bleed cycle and it started, will see how it performs tomorrow.
Why is the black non return valve called this as its just a hole going straight through the fitting ? left this out
This filter unit has never been changed since I have owned the car (5 years) there is only me who has changed the fuel filter and that was 1 year ago
any help appreciated
Taza
Si Click
Well-Known Member
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- 1,503
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- Lincolnshire
The air bleed valve goes on the front left line. Not all TD5s are fitted with a non-return valve and the left rear is often empty, it seems to make no difference whatsoever. Sounds like you got there in the end.
neilly
Well-Known Member
- Posts
- 20,000
- Location
- Oxfordshireness
Approx 1pm today it started after a few goes,so still something wrong,I already had bought a genuine complete filter housing so decided to swap it,the unit didn't come with the non return valve so i bought one.
The white air bleed valve came with the unit, when I removed the old unit the white air bleed valve was in the left front position fitting ? thought this should be in the rear position ?
removed the rear left fitting and nothing inside.
So I fitted the new unit with the white air bleed in the rear left position fitting and the black non return in the front left position.
went through the bleed cycle and it would not start so tried the bleed cycle again and still would not start
so removed the black non return valve from the rear left position and fitted the white air bleed valve, I didn't put the non return valve in the front left position. so its now how it was but with new filter housing.
carried out bleed cycle and it started, will see how it performs tomorrow.
Why is the black non return valve called this as its just a hole going straight through the fitting ? left this out
This filter unit has never been changed since I have owned the car (5 years) there is only me who has changed the fuel filter and that was 1 year ago
any help appreciated
Taza
Because the black non return valve is missing the orange rubber ducks bill. There is a guy in OZ that sells them on the bay of E. for ref , some suppliers do sell the fuel filter housing including the orange ducks bill. Other do not, it is always worth asking .
bay # 192691283247
Cheers
The black valve with the orange duck Bill came with the new air filter housing, so left that one in.
So at the moment I have the air bleed valve fitted inside the left front brass connection
And the black valve with the orange duck bill valve fitted inside the rear right hand side brass connection
So at the moment I have the air bleed valve fitted inside the left front brass connection
And the black valve with the orange duck bill valve fitted inside the rear right hand side brass connection
neilly
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OK me confused...it is , it isnt, its out.????
Which one was it?
Cheers
There are 4 brass fittings
Left rear is ware the recommend black non return valve should - no it’s not been fitted
Left front is ware the white air bleed is fitted
Right rear is ware the orange duck bill is fitted
Right front nothing inside the brass fitting.
What I want to know is why fit this so called non return valve to the left rear when it’s nothing like a non return valve all it is just reduces the hole size
Left rear is ware the recommend black non return valve should - no it’s not been fitted
Left front is ware the white air bleed is fitted
Right rear is ware the orange duck bill is fitted
Right front nothing inside the brass fitting.
What I want to know is why fit this so called non return valve to the left rear when it’s nothing like a non return valve all it is just reduces the hole size
jamesmartin
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rear outer is where the air bleed should be inside front the non return if fitted,filter heads are often assembled with the valves in the wrong positions
