Hello please help I have broken my friend's TD4 Freelander

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Ty Modur

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34
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Abersychan Wales
Hello I have changed the clutch/flywheel on a TD4 2004 for a friend. It was running OK when I started. I took the injectors out to get the cam cover off and eventually got everything back together. I reconnected the battery but the car would not start. Took injectors back out to see if they were working. when I first turn the key they all fire once then refuse to work no matter who long I crank it. Stop then turn the key again fire once then nothing. I bought an OBD2 device for my lap top but it says the flow rates are unsupported, the OBD2 system says it will work on cars from 04...... The immobiliser light goes out, the OBD2 says there are no fault codes stored in the module. So, I thought perhaps I had some how got muck in the high pressure. I took the high pressure pump off but as I turned the shaft by hand,diesel happily squirted from the high pressure feed nozzle. Please does anyone have any suggestions - other than never do it again and take it to a pro!!!
 
Why would you take the came cover off to change the clutch?. :confused:

Have you connect all the sensors back up? There's the rail sensor and cam position sensor that need connecting, or it won't start.
 
Hello, thank you, yes I had re-connected everything expecting to start and drive it. I don't know why now, I just double checked I thought that was what it said in the Haynes. But essentially I didn't think that I could get at the exhaust to be able to get at the ird bolts. The turbo air pipe and coolant rail run around the side and back of the TD4 and I could not see how to get at the exhaust flange nuts. plus after everything else I was expecting them to be seized.. If you don't know the TD4, The lower section of the aircleaner housing is moulded as one piece with the cam cover. they put 3 little holes in the bottom for you to get at the turbo, but I was scared to touch that. Taking the cam cover off initially seemed expensive and a hassle but at least you can get at the back of the engine.
 
I have seen that at start up the cam position sensor is not used, but each injector fires once, they go in a normal sequence, not 1234. then nothing, no leakage from the nozzles. Trying a leak back test tomorrow incase all the pressure is heading off back to the tank. The injectors have 120000 on them so I suppose just disturbing them could upset one or more. I have managed to get them mixed up, so the coding could be wrong, but I have tried every combination putting them back in. they fire once then nothing more cranking away till I got worried about the heat of the starter...
 
Are the fuel pressure sensors detecting fuel pressure, If the ECU is not getting a reading from the High pressure sensor it will shut off the injectors to stop them operating dry.

best way to get exhaust off the turbo is either a long extension through the wheel well or when doing the clutch you can get at the exhaust flange once the subframe is dropped
 
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Hello I have changed the clutch/flywheel on a TD4 2004 for a friend. It was running OK when I started. I took the injectors out to get the cam cover off and eventually got everything back together. I reconnected the battery but the car would not start. Took injectors back out to see if they were working. when I first turn the key they all fire once then refuse to work no matter who long I crank it. Stop then turn the key again fire once then nothing. I bought an OBD2 device for my lap top but it says the flow rates are unsupported, the OBD2 system says it will work on cars from 04...... The immobiliser light goes out, the OBD2 says there are no fault codes stored in the module. So, I thought perhaps I had some how got muck in the high pressure. I took the high pressure pump off but as I turned the shaft by hand,diesel happily squirted from the high pressure feed nozzle. Please does anyone have any suggestions - other than never do it again and take it to a pro!!!
You have my sympathies, I've sworn never to do mechanical jobs for friends ever again. They always seem to go pear shaped in some which ends up as me being either out of pocket or looking like an idiot or both.

Col
 
I would change the HP pump pressure regulator O rings. If the fuel rail was empty when the start was attempted. Then it's possible that the O rings fail, trying to fill the rail. It's a long shot, but not impossible. Additionally have you got a spare plug for the fuel rail sensor? It's not uncommon for the TD4 to have been fitted with a replacement "overlay" harness for the rail sensor. This means you have a spare and disconnected plug to get confused with.
Also make sure the cam and crank sensors are connected as the engine won't start without them being connected.
 
I have seen that at start up the cam position sensor is not used

The opposite - cam sensor is used at start-up, then ignored.

so the coding could be wrong

Td4 injectors aren’t coded - you can swap them about as much as you like.

Have you still got the old flywheel? Is it possible to fit it in the wrong orientation?

Have you got kit to check the crank sensor signal? These can be damaged during flywheel change.

Is the high pressure regulator plugged in? Engine won’t run without this.

You may need to borrow a better scan tool - this should give you crank, cam and HPR indications, as well as rail and low pressure values. These common rail diesels are fussy about pressures, so spinning the HP pump manually and seeing fuel coming out won’t tell you much.
 
Are the fuel pressure sensors detecting fuel pressure, If the ECU is not getting a reading from the High pressure sensor it will shut off the injectors to stop them operating dry.

best way to get exhaust off the turbo is either a long extension through the wheel well or when doing the clutch you can get at the exhaust flange once the subframe is dropped
Thank you, unfortunately the EasyOBD2 kit I bought claims that the flows and calibrations are not supported so don't know about readings.

I see what you mean about getting the exhaust flange, but at the time I had had so much trouble with other bolts I was not expecting trouble with I didn't want to take any chances with rounded exhaust bolts, and I am still not sure how you would get at the exhaust manifold to air pipe to get that off from underneath. But I shall NEVER attempt it again so .. Sorry for the delay in replying to all posts, I decided to opt for a bottle of cider and forgetting over the weekend..
 
You have my sympathies, I've sworn never to do mechanical jobs for friends ever again. They always seem to go pear shaped in some which ends up as me being either out of pocket or looking like an idiot or both.

Col
Hmmmm , I am sure I will reach a point of calm when I can think that the extra knowledge and friendship are worth it ... Some day..
 
Thank you, unfortunately the EasyOBD2 kit I bought claims that the flows and calibrations are not supported so don't know about readings.

I see what you mean about getting the exhaust flange, but at the time I had had so much trouble with other bolts I was not expecting trouble with I didn't want to take any chances with rounded exhaust bolts, and I am still not sure how you would get at the exhaust manifold to air pipe to get that off from underneath. But I shall NEVER attempt it again so .. Sorry for the delay in replying to all posts, I decided to opt for a bottle of cider and forgetting over the weekend..
Without a half-decent scan tool you’re working in the dark a bit.

Here’s a good Td4 clutch guide - I followed it OK and didn’t touch the exhaust. Alibro’s is also good.

http://pmmonline.co.uk/technical/clutch-replacement-land-rover-freelander-2-0-td4/
 
I would change the HP pump pressure regulator O rings. If the fuel rail was empty when the start was attempted. Then it's possible that the O rings fail, trying to fill the rail. It's a long shot, but not impossible. Additionally have you got a spare plug for the fuel rail sensor? It's not uncommon for the TD4 to have been fitted with a replacement "overlay" harness for the rail sensor. This means you have a spare and disconnected plug to get confused with.
Also make sure the cam and crank sensors are connected as the engine won't start without them being connected.
Hello, thank you for this, yes everything was definitely re-connected. My mate has had this since it was 6m old so, I know its history and no there has been no patch plug,, though if it stops raining I shall double check for corrosion. I see what you mean about the O rings and I have a set here but it did spurt diesel nicely when I turned the shaft, and though that is not conclusive, my concern was that I may have got gunck in it and I did leave the ignition on for while to allow the diesel to self bleed.
Correct Ali. There's no need to remove injectors or filter housings to change the clutch.

I agree, I couldn't quite believe that you had to drop the subframe, so I didn't until I realised that you really do have to (when I discovered the badly rusted anti roll bar) and to be fair, I am doing the job entirely on my own on the drive and taking the cam cover off did make getting the at the coolant rail etc. much easier. Plus I had hired an engine crane and used that to lift the IRD in and twas lovely and easy with straps down behind the engine not impeded by the air cleaner. And had it started I would still have been glad to have taken it off. I have never worked on a turbo diesel with egr before and was shocked by the built up gunge in the inlet ports and manifold . If it ever starts again it should at least breath a lot better again, and, my mate is on a till death do us part with his Freebee
 
I didn't do the leak off test on Sat as I hoped I will try again between hurricanes on Monday. I have a feeling this may be the answer. It was long ago and there has been so much despair since then, but I am sure that when it first would not start. The first think I did was check to see that there was diesel in the injector return pipe. I seem to recall that diesel was pouring from this and I had to turn the ignition off to stop it. I hope you are all tucked up nice and lovely as we say here. But if any of you are insomniacs and know for sure if that should or should not be happening please do drop a hint.

In the mean time I am working on the theory that one or more of the injectors just could not take being moved, even as gently as they were and that one or more of them are simply letting all the pressure run away. The car has done 120000 miles so they have done well and it has been a sod to start from cold for a few years (notice subtle blame shifting) If anyone else ever reads this about injectors. I was surprised as it is meant to be a high pressure system, that I never had any sense of high pressure being released undoing the connectors. Tomorrow I shall try the injector run off test just using the electric pumps without cranking it. I suppose that if one or more are running off then they are probably Monty Pythons Parrots

I shall report back! thanks for everyone's, contributions Bore Da!
 
Are the fuel pressure sensors detecting fuel pressure, If the ECU is not getting a reading from the High pressure sensor it will shut off the injectors to stop them operating dry.

best way to get exhaust off the turbo is either a long extension through the wheel well or when doing the clutch you can get at the exhaust flange once the subframe is dropped
Hello, thanks for that I thought it was strange that they only fire once, as you turn the key for the first time, I though there must be a lock out or you would expect the cranking to eventually fire them again. It may be the pressure switch,, but it is odd that it should fail so suddenly and as I describe in my post below I now think I remember that there was a strong flow coming from the injector return pipe just when the electric pumps were running. Will be conducting run off Later today and will post results. Cheers
 
Final thought for the night, Never in my wildest dreams have I imagined that I would be going to sleep hoping I have broken one or more injectors. Funny old world
 
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