still chasing brake problem

Hi all, I am still trying to rectify my poor brakes. Here is a list of new parts fitted so far.

Brake pads and shoes
Brake pipes
new fluid
Replacement alternator (as advised by garage)

it seems to brake OK but just won't stop sort of grinds to a halt as if the brakes have oil on them. Doesn't brake hard enough for the ABS to kick in. Pedal sinks about 1to 2 inches when engine started when pressure applied and pumps up hard when engine switched off with no sinking. There is also a slight up and down motion felt through the brake pedal when coming to a halt, slow pulse so not ABS, I am thinking brake disks as they are a little pitted and the pads are not cleaning all the way across the disk face so could be warped slightly? Got some coming tomorrow but not sure if this will solve my problem. The only other thing would be the brake servo/booster but not sure what the symptoms would be for that?

have you checked the servo for leaks?


Depress the brake pedal and check that it does not creep down to the floor, indicating a master cylinder fault. Release the pedal, wait a few seconds, then depress it again. If the pedal travels nearly to the floor before firm resistance is felt, brake adjustment or repair is necessary. If the pedal feels spongy, there is air in the hydraulic system which must be removed by bleeding.
Check that the brake pedal is secure and in good condition. Check also for signs of fluid leaks on the pedal, floor or carpets, which would indicate failed seals in the brake master cylinder.
Check the servo unit (when applicable) by operating the brake pedal several times, then keeping the pedal depressed and starting the engine. As the engine starts, the pedal will move down slightly. If not, the vacuum hose or the servo itself may be faulty.

Martyfreelander said:

Hi all, I am still trying to rectify my poor brakes. Here is a list of new parts fitted so far.

Brake pads and shoes
Brake pipes
new fluid
Replacement alternator (as advised by garage)

I am thinking brake disks as they are a little pitted and the pads are not cleaning all the way across the disk face so could be warped slightly? Got some coming tomorrow but not sure if this will solve my problem.

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While your changing the discs , clean the caliper guide pins (wire wool/180ish grit sand paper) and copper grease them before refitting .

sound like kessi was saying ,master cylinder , or vacuum to it

After checking stuff above. I'd be thinking about what pads you fitted? Are they cheap ****ty ones? They often give uninspiring braking! I go for oem pads like Pagid cos they're a decent quality not like lumps of wood!

Hi guys thanks for the replys there are no master cylinder symptoms the pedal stays nice and hard with no sinking, I already greased up the sliding pins but they were pretty good anyway. The pads were bought from a 4x4 specialist locally so should at least be able to stop the freelander. The new disks are not cheap eBay onwards either so if they fail to improve things after fitting and bleeding then brake servo it is! Anyone know if there are any differences in brake servo across the engine range?

vacuum test to the master first

ming said:

vacuum test to the master first

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Just replaced the disks and a minor improvement but still no power to them, Have pulled the vacuum hose of the booster and it sucks to my hand and takes a fair bit of force to pull it off again so I think the only possible thing can be the brake booster....

Pumping brake pedal pads not cleaning all accross discs, it sound like a, youneed new discs and pads and b, has it been bled in the correct sequence. try clamping all the brake pipes and check brake pedal it should be solid, then release one clamp at a time and keep checking the pedal if you find one that the pedal goes down then you have found which one to have another look at.

jimbo2107 said:

Pumping brake pedal pads not cleaning all accross discs, it sound like a, youneed new discs and pads and b, has it been bled in the correct sequence. try clamping all the brake pipes and check brake pedal it should be solid, then release one clamp at a time and keep checking the pedal if you find one that the pedal goes down then you have found which one to have another look at.

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It has been bled through with new fluid twice ant the pedal is nice and solid. I did a little test earlier I got the freelander up to speed on an industrial estate and switched the engine off, the brakes were exactly the same so I think the servo Is the culprit and tonight the peal has almost stopped sinking when the engine is switched off so almost no servo assistance, also now when I switch on the engine I get a load noise from the servo like a spring being stretched and then let go with a boiiing noise.

It can take 200 miles for pads and discs to wear into each other - braking can be sponges and have lots if pedal travel during this time - it gets better with miles.

Is it Petrol or Diesel.
If its a diesel the vacuum is supplied by a pump,as there is not enough vacuum, unlike a petrol engine which supplies the servo via the inlet manifold.
The pumps can fail or the seals can.I had this happen on a VW transporter.
New O ring and a clean and its still good 100,000 miles later.

webley2000 said:

Is it Petrol or Diesel.
If its a diesel the vacuum is supplied by a pump,as there is not enough vacuum, unlike a petrol engine which supplies the servo via the inlet manifold.
The pumps can fail or the seals can.I had this happen on a VW transporter.
New O ring and a clean and its still good 100,000 miles later.

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The vacuum pump has been replaced, was the first thing done, there is shed loads of vacuum. There is no spongy peddal and the pedal barely moves at all when pressed, It is the same as when you stall a car and try and brake, no power assistance. you have to stand on the brakes to get it to stop. Have ordered a servo so will see how this goes.

Silly question but with engine off and wheel in the air does pressing the pedal stop someone turning the wheel? You are sure the pistons are moving aren't you?

Hi, I am happy to announce my brakes are now excellent! Changed the brake servo this morning in the pouring rain and they now nearly put me through the windscreen! when I removed the master cylinder from the servo on the car there was no release of pressure even though it had been running, when I removed the master cylinder from the second hand servo even though it had been removed from the car a couple of weeks and shipped to me it still had pressure stored!

For information. The DI engine and the 1.8 up to 2000 shares the same servo but there is a difference between the master cylinders ABS or non ABS.

excellent good to hear. Atleast you wont have to worry about anything to do with brakes for a while

i think you have found the problem

I've got no rear brakes when using the brake peddle but the handbrake works fine anyone got any idea's (newbie)

I assume Earthling that the fronts do work ? Then spoke to Porky (eeze er furra bred) and he said it could be both calipers siezed but sed,it's rare for both to go at same time, but first thing to check.

Cheers for the reply but It don't have callipers on back its drums also handbrake warning light always comes on at 10mph