I've put a deposit down and now concerned

I'm concerned again now As mentioned the first owner regularly serviced the vehicle at Guy Salmon Land Rover from 10,000 miles to 90,000 miles so I called Guy Salmon again to ask if they'd ever replaced the VCU and they hadn't. Interestingly they said this isn't an issue with the Freelander 1 and is more of an issue with the Freelander 2 Whats the chance of the vehicles two owners having no drivetrain issues and the VCU is still performing ok at 110,000 miles? I reversed slowly in full lock and all seemed fine, so i assume the propshaft may not be present. I will contact the seller and ask the question.

Edit:
Mileage isn't a sure way to tell if the VCU is going to give issues or not. It's condition is completely dependent on how well it's been looked after. My own Freelander has 115K on the clock and the VCU is still OK at the moment.
Tyres and pressures play a huge role in keeping the VCU in good condition.
All tyres must be the same make, type and size. All must be the same pressure and if new tyres are needed. All 4 should be replaced at the same time. If only 2 are fitted, the replacements must match those already fitted, and must go on the back. New tyres must never be fitted to the front of a Freelander, even though the front will wear faster than the back.

Nodge68 said:

You can tell if the Freelander VCU is present, simply by reversing on full lock. It should feel like there's something dragging, similar to the handbrake being particularly on. This normal and is indicative of the VCU working. If you didn't feel any drag, then the propshafts could well be removed. This will need investigation on your next visit.

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I'm questioning myself now. I think I was only listening for knocking or vibrations, to be honest I may have felt a drag, it certainly wasn't as smooth as reversing my BMW 3 Series on full lock. Well I suppose I will know for sure on Saturday morning, just hope its not a wasted visit.

See my edit above.

MrFillet said:

I'm questioning myself now. I think I was only listening for knocking or vibrations, to be honest I may have felt a drag, it certainly wasn't as smooth as reversing my BMW 3 Series on full lock. Well I suppose I will know for sure on Saturday morning, just hope its not a wasted visit.

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A good FL1 should drive as well as the E46 BMW. Mine definitely drives better than the wife's summertime E46 convertible, except for the lack of go in the Freelander. The steering, brakes, suspension and visibility are better in the Freelander.

Nodge68 said:

See my edit above.

A good FL1 should drive as well as the E46 BMW. Mine definitely drives better than the wife's summertime E46 convertible, except for the lack of go in the Freelander. The steering, brakes, suspension and visibility are better in the Freelander.

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Sold my E46 yesterday as all 4 arches were rusty, exhaust was rattling, startup became a struggle and it cut out on me last week whilst pulling out on a dual carriageway (not ideal). I purchased it at 120,000 and sold it on 190,000, so i'd had my moneys worth. Only had a new clutch fly wheel and 2 new sets of tyres in the 4 years of ownership. Shame I didn't quite get to 200,000 miles though. To be honest the Freelander drove very well, I was impressed and liked being higher up. I have fond memories of travelling in a number of Land Rovers my Dad owned when I was a kid. I'm sure my kids will love the Freelander, especially if I'm brave enough to remove the hardtop.

Nodge68 said:

You can tell if the Freelander VCU is present, simply by reversing on full lock. It should feel like there's something dragging, similar to the handbrake being particularly on. This normal and is indicative of the VCU working. If you didn't feel any drag, then the propshafts could well be removed. This will need investigation on your next visit.
.

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Hi Nodge, I would disagree on the first part. A normally working VCU will offer no discernible difference on reverse on full lock, indeed, if you notice ANY form of binding - "like there's something dragging, similar to the handbrake being particularly on" then the VCU is in need of replacement ASAP.
Joe.

Can't you just call the seller and ask if it has the propshaft still on there. Or ask if it's had a 2WD conversion?
Alternatively, if they don't know, ask them to take a quick picture on their phone of the underneath the cabin showing the exhaust running along the middle of the car. If it's there, it will be obvious, looking like a scaffold pipe going into an ~8" diameter cylinder about halfway along the vehicle.
If it is there, as Nodge says, milage doesn't mean it will be bad. The recommendation is to replace them around 70k, but from what folks say on here, there are many with much higher milages and well performing VCUs. It just means the risk of it reaching the end of its life has increased, so you need to check it more often.
Also ask what tyres are on the vehicle at present, if you can't make it out from the photos in the advert.

Also, to the OP< absolutely utterly walk away if the prop-shaft(s) has been removed. Don't even contemplate it or listen to excuses.

4Bee4Bee said:

Can't you just call the seller and ask if it has the propshaft still on there. Or ask if it's had a 2WD conversion?
Alternatively, if they don't know, ask them to take a quick picture on their phone of the underneath the cabin showing the exhaust running along the middle of the car. If it's there, it will be obvious, looking like a scaffold pipe going into an ~8" diameter cylinder about halfway along the vehicle.
If it is there, as Nodge says, milage doesn't mean it will be bad. The recommendation is to replace them around 70k, but from what folks say on here, there are many with much higher milages and well performing VCUs. It just means the risk of it reaching the end of its life has increased, so you need to check it more often.
Also ask what tyres are on the vehicle at present, if you can't make it out from the photos in the advert.

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I think its best I do to save a wasted trip, thanks. I'm looking closely at the Autotrader pictures and even though the tyres all look to have good tread, the fronts and backs may be from different manufacturers.

Joe_H said:

Hi Nodge, I would disagree on the first part. A normally working VCU will offer no discernible difference on reverse on full lock, indeed, if you notice ANY form of binding - "like there's something dragging, similar to the handbrake being particularly on" then the VCU is in need of replacement ASAP.
Joe.

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Slight drag on lock is normal Joe, according to LR a "feature" of the design
Wheel skipping or groaning from the drive train isn't normal however.
My current and every FL1 I've owned has slight transmission drag on full lock in reverse.
Yet I can turn the wheel slowly by hand. This is impossible according to Bell. Apparently you need a 2ft bar to turn a wheel. That's a crock of ****e. This is also contradictory to Bell's no drag in reverse statement. If the VCU is normally too stiff to turn without a long lever, it will drag when reversing on full lock. LR themselves state that slight drag in reverse on full lock is completely normal and a "feature" of the design.
Additionally on the OWUT (which Bell say is worthless) my VCU times at ~45 seconds. This is well under the 120 seconds that Alibro has timed, without any IRD damage.
So be cautious of a website that rubbishes other tests, in favour of there own tests. Especially when those tests show a false problem, to sells recon VCU's
I've edited my previous post too avoid possible confusion.

If the new engine bolts arrive in time for the weekend, I'll be in a position to properly test the driveline of my FL1. I recall that when I reversed it onto the drive, the driveline drag brought the car practically to a halt, and you needed to give it a boot load of throttle to over come this.

Luckily no groans or tyre skipping, but a knock once I got it onto the drive (rear diff bush perhaps?)

IRS oil inspection will be coming up soon (I've ordered one of those 500ml oil fillers ) - fingers crossed that the VCU is only approaching end of life and hasn't damaged the IRD or rear diff!

For Mr Fillet - I have a feeling you have a good one with a pretty comprehensive service history. It isn't unusual for cars to leave the main dealer network after a few years (mine has a full LR SR for its first 9 years - which I think is pretty good going!) - and if the second owner isn't an enthusiast, then bills and receipts tend to get lost. But do anticipate a few "service" bills - as you know, they're a feature of older car purchases anyway!

Nodge68 said:

You can tell if the Freelander VCU is present, simply by reversing on full lock. It should feel like there's something dragging, similar to the handbrake being particularly on. This normal and is indicative of the VCU working.

Slight drag on lock is normal Joe. If there's no drag on lock, something is amiss.
The VCU will gently couple the axles together, giving a slight braking effect. This a completely normal and according to LR a "feature" of the design
Wheel skipping or groaning from the drive train isn't normal however.

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Hi Nodge, it certainly is not in any way like 'the hand brake is partially on' - if so - then the vcu is well past it - it is captain cooked ..and you are putting excessive strain on your transmission.
There may be a very slight discernible difference between straight line forward and reverse and full lock forward and reverse - but hardly noticeable at all.

I have had three VCU's - one that was way past it's usable life that did place drag on full lock in reverse and forward. One that was built incorrectly in Portugal that was useless and would not transfer drive in any way .. and a fully recon unit from Bell Engineering.
There should in no way be any feeling as if the hand brake was partially on. I think the description you used is far too 'misleading' and could lead to someone believing a knackered unit that is excessively straining their transmission is ok.
Unfortunately, this is confusing for the OP.

IF you have drag that increases with lock that you feel as if the brakes are being pressed or the handbrake is partially on then the VCU is totally past it. Feeling of partially applied handbrake etc is certainly not normal at all and not a feature

I can refer him to the best source of info available - if he is in doubt, give them a ring for info.

http://www.bellengineering.co.uk/5.html

Joe

rob_bell said:

If the new engine bolts arrive in time for the weekend, I'll be in a position to properly test the driveline of my FL1. I recall that when I reversed it onto the drive, the driveline drag brought the car practically to a halt, and you needed to give it a boot load of throttle to over come this.

Luckily no groans or tyre skipping, but a knock once I got it onto the drive (rear diff bush perhaps?)

IRS oil inspection will be coming up soon (I've ordered one of those 500ml oil fillers ) - fingers crossed that the VCU is only approaching end of life and hasn't damaged the IRD or rear diff!

For Mr Fillet - I have a feeling you have a good one with a pretty comprehensive service history. It isn't unusual for cars to leave the main dealer network after a few years (mine has a full LR SR for its first 9 years - which I think is pretty good going!) - and if the second owner isn't an enthusiast, then bills and receipts tend to get lost. But do anticipate a few "service" bills - as you know, they're a feature of older car purchases anyway!

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Thanks Rob, the current (2nd) owner said only the exhaust has been replaced under his ownership from 90,000 to 110,000 miles.

MrFillet said:

Thanks Rob, the current (2nd) owner said only the exhaust has been replaced under his ownership from 90,000 to 110,000 miles.

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That sounds perfectly plausible.

Just the usual things to check then - does it have the prop shaft to the rear and how does it feel to reverse? Seemingly, later cars can run higher mileages before the VCU gives up the ghost - and perhaps this is one example. I am keeping my fingers crossed for you!

rob_bell said:

That sounds perfectly plausible.

Just the usual things to check then - does it have the prop shaft to the rear and how does it feel to reverse? Seemingly, later cars can run higher mileages before the VCU gives up the ghost - and perhaps this is one example. I am keeping my fingers crossed for you!

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Thanks, I have sent the seller a text asking if the Propshaft / VCU is present, along with an descriptive picture showing what it looks like.

MrFillet said:

Thanks, I have sent the seller a text asking if the Propshaft / VCU is present, along with an descriptive picture showing what it looks like. Hopefully its on there but the mismatching tyres are now a concern.

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From what you have described it would seem like it is potentially a good buy. The service history is great !. as others have said, check ALL the electrics - everything.- anything that fails to go on or off, up or down or close and open or lit and unlit etc etc is going to cost you money. - a central locking door lock / unit is around 100 quid for example - and a common failure - as are power window mechanisms so make sure everything works.
If the VCU and prop is on and it feels as you described on full lock (no discernible tightness), forward AND reverse then it is probably ok - ANY feeling as if the hand brake is partially applied on full lock etc - then again - walk away.
You will probably end up with a great motor. Just check EVERYTHING you can.
fingers crossed and welcome aboard
Joe

As with all forums you will get some seemingly conflicting advice but for the reverse test I prefer to say it feels like a slight tightness rather than the handbrake on.
This is because while reversing on full lock the front wheels have to turn slightly faster then the rears. The VCU is the connection between the front and rear wheels so it needs so turn to allow for the difference in speed. Even when brand new they are tight and so give a feeling of tightness which some describe as the handbrake on just a notch. When they get older or have been abused by incorrect tires fitted the tightness increases. At first this is not an issue and there is quite a large margin of safety but they can get so tight they refuse to turn at all so another part of the drive train has to hence drive train failure.
As for the comments from the garage about the VCU, I refer back to my previous comment about the ignorance of garages and mechanics. They really haven't got a clue.

Alibro said:

As with all forums you will get some seemingly conflicting advice but for the reverse test I prefer to say it feels like a slight tightness rather than the handbrake on.
This is because while reversing on full lock the front wheels have to turn slightly faster then the rears. The VCU is the connection between the front and rear wheels so it needs so turn to allow for the difference in speed. Even when brand new they are tight and so give a feeling of tightness which some describe as the handbrake on just a notch. When they get older or have been abused by incorrect tires fitted the tightness increases. At first this is not an issue and there is quite a large margin of safety but they can get so tight they refuse to turn at all so another part of the drive train has to hence drive train failure.
As for the comments from the garage about the VCU, I refer back to my previous comment about the ignorance of garages and mechanics. They really haven't got a clue.

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I said handbrake slightly (now edited). I do agree with your description though.
There is a slight braking affect when on full lock. There was a TSB about this very thing, when the FL1 came out. This slight braking effect is normal and nothing to worry about. As to why Bell insist that it's a fault is beyond me. Unless they are touting to sell more VCUs.
Here's the TSB that covers this.
http://www.myfreelander.co.uk/Transmission/transprobs1.htm

Just a pointer, if your revesring it on full lock, your fighting the IRD, ie your whinding the diff up,

Jonnyb1990 said:

Just a pointer, if your revesring it on full lock, your fighting the IRD, ie your whinding the diff up,

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Only if the VCU is so tight it refuses to turn. A working VCU should be preventing IRD windup. Rather than confuse people by talking about IRD and rear diff I prefer to say drive train.
Not strictly correct but easier for non techies to understand.