Installing 24v winch

I've been offered a cracking brand new winch at a 60% reduced price from a neighbour in a tight spot (keeping details to myself for now).Does anybody have actual experience of running a 24v winch in a 12v Defender without resorting to converting the winch to 12v? Wondering if it's possible without being an electrical boffin...which I'm not.

I have trawled the net but just finding people's opinions who haven't actually done it, or people who know somebody who has successfully managed it.

I don't mind if it needs seperate alternator, batteries etc as have been considering doing something to upgrade it all anyway. Would rather upgrade the system than replace bits on a brand new winch.

I have a Dowty 1P 3072 series pto hydraulic pump for my transfer box that previously ran the tipping gear before removed. I was considering getting a hydraulic winch for it but don't know if can be bothered with all the faff and would like to keep the 3 seats for the kids (lever comes in through cab when fitted).

So when I was offered this 24v winch I got to looking for info but can't ascertain if it's actually possible without converting winch to 12v.

Been more than happy with my superwinch X9 that came with the Defender. Works like a horse (it's used for work). But was just thinking of making use of my hydraulic pump and then the offer of the 24v winch came along.

Second battery, split charge system and wire them up so you get 24v just to the winch when selected

What @Jam1 said .. You don't need a second alternator unless you're using it a lot with heavy duty cycles. Often done in competition so that one battery is for the vehicle, one for the winch, but with a switched solenoid between the batteries they can run a winch on 12 or 24v .. which speeds a 12v motor up somewhat!!

Great guys. Thankyou. Nice to get some definitive info. I'll go ahead and buy it. If anybody who has done it can possibly give me a step by step on set up I'd appreciate it. Even happy to send a crate of beer your way in return.

If second altenator would be better for heavier use then Id be happy to go for that. I'm a bit vague with electrics but actually the second altenator my brain seems to be able to process how that would work. Whatever gets the most out of it. Money well spent in my eyes.

I know 24v into a 12v for short bursts will kick some life into a winch if the motor can take it but I assume performance wise there will be no real advantage of the 24v over a 12v?

Just fact its a complete bargain.

In saying that, I know where I can get a good superwinch hydraulic winch for not a lot of money. I have a dowty pto hydraulic pump but I dunno...the whole hydraulic thing I know even less about so I suppose that puts me off...installing etc.

You will have difficulties trying to run two 12v alternators and two 12v batteries at the same time while trying to connect them in series to make 24v for the winch. The reason is that both alternators will be connected to earth via their fittings, if you then try to connect the negative terminal of the second battery to the positive of the first battery (putting them in series) you will effectively short the first battery out via the second alternators earth. In this situation it would actually be better / easier to only have one alternator fitted so you can have the batteries connected in parallel for charging but the second battery then switched in to series if you need to use the winch at full power (24v). If you leave the batteries in parallel (12v) the winch will run slower / less power but it does mean that both batteries will get recharged when the winch is not operating, in 24v mode (high power) only one battery will get charged by the alternator as the second wont until it gets put back in parallel with the first. There are ways to get around these issues (such as electrically isolating the second alternator earth points) but it will make things more complex / expensive

Mercedes used to do 12V running and 24V starting on the 608D, that had two 12V batteries that were series or parallel according to the starter solenoid position.

I'd think about the same thing, just have another battery wired through contactors so it normally ran in parallel with the car battery but was put in series for the winch.

Fairly simple to do, Albright contactors....

Two single-pole change-over contactors would do it, wired so the slave battery is in parallel with the car battery. When the winch button is pressed (or you can do that separately) the contactors operate, cutting the negative link and the positive link to the car battery. The positive link connects to the slave battery negative by the same contacts at the positive end, the winch feed is taken off the slave battery positive which is now at 24V potential. Winch negative goes to the car negative.

Peter

As Peter says ^^^^^^^
Just one other thing you might have to consider in the set-up.
When the vehicle is switched off, I'd arrange for the second battery to be isolated. Unless the batteries are of the same type, capacity and even age, there is the possibility that if they are left connected in parallel with no charging current they might start to discharge eachother as they try to balance their charge levels.

Peter has explained the best solution without getting too expensive, but note that that solution will only work with a single alternator. If you still want to go twin alternator you are also going to have to isolate the alternator from the battery but then attach a separate load to the alternator at the same time as they don't like being run without a load attached. I'd recommend Peters solution and forget the second alternator.

If you used an isolated earth alternator for the second battery, you could hang it onto the battery permanently and not worry about it, but otherwise you'll be fine with both batteries in parallel and a decent run to bring them up.

Isolation when standing isn't a bad idea, but if the vehicle is used daily it shouldn't be a problem.

Peter

I'm pretty sure that this is what Peter and Kwakerman are talking about:

The way it works.
Contactor "C" is wired from the ignition switch so that the second battery is isolated when the vehicle ignition is off.
Contactors "A" and "B" switch the second battery from parallel with the main battery when the winch switch is off to series when the winch switch is on.
That is just a basic diagram, adequate and suitable fuses would have to be fitted.

I did a quickie drawing, but you beat me to it!



Peter

Yeah. You did a nice pretty CAD drawing including a modification record anorl, I just threw a pencil sketch together and scanned it, half the time I didn't even use a ruler.

listerdiesel said:

If you used an isolated earth alternator for the second battery, you could hang it onto the battery permanently and not worry about it, but otherwise you'll be fine with both batteries in parallel and a decent run to bring them up.

Isolation when standing isn't a bad idea, but if the vehicle is used daily it shouldn't be a problem.

Peter

Click to expand...

The main safety issue with the isolated earth 2nd alternator method is that its casing would be at +12v with respect to the vehicle chassis / engine block. If you were to accidently place / drop a spanner on the alternator case and it also touched the engine block or chassis there would be some interesting fire works! Hybridni if you were to use this method then ensure you make a fully insulated cover for the 2nd alternator.

Right well what can I possibly say....absolutely brilliant replies. Big thanks!

Pm me addresses and I'll arrange a case of your preferred beer....really appreciate the advice.

Can't drink alcohol right now as I'm on Chemotherapy, but thanks for the offer

Peter

Kwakerman said:

The main safety issue with the isolated earth 2nd alternator method is that its casing would be at +12v with respect to the vehicle chassis / engine block. If you were to accidently place / drop a spanner on the alternator case and it also touched the engine block or chassis there would be some interesting fire works! Hybridni if you were to use this method then ensure you make a fully insulated cover for the 2nd alternator.

Click to expand...

Good point:

That would only hold true while the contactors were operating, the rest of the time it would not affect things in that way.

Peter

brian47 said:

Yeah. You did a nice pretty CAD drawing including a modification record anorl, I just threw a pencil sketch together and scanned it, half the time I didn't even use a ruler.

Click to expand...

We use Autocad and Intellicad and I have basic drawing sheets set up with our company details on. Quicker to just delete that block and use the sheet than draw a new one. The symbols are all in the library too.

Quick screen dump and ftp to our web site, quite as an IMG, job done.

Peter

I s'pose I could have used M$ Visio, but to be honest, I just scribbled it down. Visio would have taken at least three times the time. It's quite a handy package for drawing but in the usual M$ way it does things it wasn't supposed to when you're not looking!

you need a bosch parallel start relay
part number 0333300003