Insurance and MOT implications after station wagon conversion.

Hello Everyone,

I am planning on purchasing a Defender 90 to fully restore. I really want a CSW however haven't found one yet that I like, however I have seen two hard tops I like. So, my question is if I purchase a hard top and convert it to CSW how will it affect my insurance MOT etc?

I am not worried about the technical aspect as this seems quite straight forward but I want to know things like if the insurance will be more for a converted version, how does the change affect the resale value and what do I need to do to satisfy the DVLA or DVSA?

Thanks in advance.
Philip

worth a bit more than a hardtop but much less than a genuine CSW.

conversions dont meet LEZ that has more bearing on value than the fact its CSW

If its a 90 van then fitting rear seats will put up insurance as you are increasing the risk by two extra passengers, as previous post for certain purposes it will never be an estate(station wagon) . CSW was not just extra seats but a whole lot of other things not least trim . What model were you thinking of emulating , as earlier CSW were 7 seats , then six then 4 which were forward facing only 2 in rear. If you go other than the 2 rear seat route , then any child would need to be in front seat . You would need to use the required mountings for seatbelts etc to meet the mot requirements .
There is such a wide range of values in Landrovers that trying to assign a probable is very difficult , its very much down to individuals both vehicle and buyer .

There's two parts of this that you need to be aware of.

The first one is for you to convert a hardtop into a CSW. This typically involves windows, more seats and other comfort things like insulation, etc.
You can (almost) freely do these modifications. You need to update the data you have on the V5 with the DVLA, for example if it says 3 seats, and you've changed that, you should change it with the DVLA. Then the MOT needs to be happy with your changes. Then you need to tell your insurance company that you've changed things and you need to pay them for the privilege.

The second thing you should be aware of is that a hardtop is typically registered a PLG - Private Light Goods vehicle. Whereas a CSW is registered as a normal car. The major difference between these is that typically there was no VAT (and other taxes) paid on the PLG vehicle but the CSW did pay it. This is the reason why the CSW with the same engine as the hardtop is exempt from the London LEZ zone, and the CSW can travel at car-speeds but the hardtop has to travel at van-speeds.
To change your PLG to a car you'll need to pay taxes and do a change of use with the DVLA. This is a whole different kettle of fish than installing seats. In fact I can't recall hearing anyone doing this conversion.

Good luck!

TheJoker said:

This is the reason why the CSW with the same engine as the hardtop is exempt from the London LEZ zone, and the CSW can travel at car-speeds but the hardtop has to travel at van-speeds.

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The Gov.uk site would appear to class a hardtop as a dual-purpose vehicle, which has the same speed limits as a car.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...es/car-derived-vans-and-dual-purpose-vehicles

Dual purpose vehicles
A dual purpose vehicle is a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods and designed to weigh no more than 2,040 kg when unladen, and is either:

constructed or adapted so that the driving power of the engine is, or can be selected to be, transmitted to all wheels of the vehicle
or

permanently fitted with a rigid roof, at least one row of transverse passenger seats to the rear of the driver’s seat and will have side and rear windows - there must also be a minimum ratio between the size of passenger and stowage areas

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My 90 is a factory CSW, and the LEZ checker says it's exempt, but on the v5 it's classed as PLG

I dont know where some of this info is coming from , PLG covers exactly that , eg private (cars etc ) and light goods (vans etc) so any landrover will be in the plg category . They were merged probably a couple of decades ago IIRC
The dvla data on the V5 will not have seat numbers unless its a minibus , cars and vans dont have seat numbers as its not relevant to the plg category.

Re the VAT implications , dont think is relevant , as vat is payable on all . There used to be a bit of an issue years ago when it was "purchase tax" , as vehicles without side windows were vans and did not have purchase tax on them , but with windows did , this was why the series 1 station wagon died , as it was nearly twice the price of the standard landrover 86" . When you fitted side windows in a van or landrover you were supposed to pay the purchase tax, although IIRC it was on a sliding scale depending on how many years old it was , I cant remember if it was the VAT intro that did away with it or whether it was just an enforcement and collection problem . The reason the CSW is exempt from LEZ is that the log book registered it as an estate not 4x4 utility .
The speed limit thing has been explained as n/A in the previous post .

I'm definitely no source of 100% correct information on this subject, and I am not claiming that either.
My other half looked into this briefly and came to the conclusion that converting my Defender van into a car was not worth it. Mine is registered as a van, need van insurance, can't go into LEZ, etc.

The point that I was trying to make (with incorrect information and bad examples) is that the Defender can be registered as a car or as a van. Changing what's inside the vehicle and/or adding windows to it does not change what it is registered as.

And according to this, my Defender is a van, and as such should do van speeds.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...es/car-derived-vans-and-dual-purpose-vehicles
It does not look like a "car", it looks like "Light 4X4 Utility" as it says on the V5.

I believe that another indicator on what vehicle you're driving is what taxation class it is. Mine is "Private/Light goods (TC11)" but if it were newer than 1 March 2001 it would be "Light goods vehicles (TC39). if my vehicle was a CSW and registered after 1 March 2001 it would be registered as a 'Diesel car (TC49)". https://www.gov.uk/vehicle-tax-rate-tables

Anyway, this only applies if this is what OP wanted to change. If the OP only wants the creature comforts of a CSW but is OK with it registered as whatever it is registered as then go for it. If the objective is something else (drive in LEZ for example, change insurance class, change taxation class, etc) then things might be getting a bit more complicated.

Oh, and an old thirsty dirty petrol V8 is allowed in LEZ regardless of what it is registered as - bureaucracy is lovely.

Thanks everyone for the information. I intend to fully restore the Defender when I get one, I want the station wagon as I intend to use it as my primary car. I don't have children, so that isn't a concern but from time to time I will have friends in the back. I was intending to fit two forward facing seats in the rear with three point seatbelts, although they will probably spend most of the time folded.

If you were to compare insurance, would a factory CSW be cheaper than a converted CSW of the same age, condition etc or would it be comparable?

As for LEZ I have been told that you can register to be LEZ exempt even if the your CSW isn't a factory built one, does anyone know if this is true or not?

In truth I'm not too worried about these questions but I like to understand all the implications so I can make an informed purchase.

Get what your saying , none intended .
The designation for taxation class is not the designator for all purposes, eg a PLG can be a dpv , and estate all at the same time .
The LEZ thing is a bit of a joke , my 90 cant go into LEZ yet its entire power train is from a discovery that would be able to drive in London with impunity. Luckily my CSW
that was a V8 so doubly exempt , is now diesel (from a BMW car that could go in) , can still go in as its DVLA classed as an "estate" . Yet when driving in europe recently there were several cities that it could not enter .

Re insurance dont be that concerned about it as the range of prices for either would be more significant . think you are spending too long contemplating your navel, the end result is a 90 with seats in the back , if the LEZ thing is that important then by a genuine estate and save your self the aggravation, of trying to build one and get it reclassified.
There are several threads on various landrover fora about the possibilities or not of getting a LEZ exemption .

I think my 90 CSW is classed as 4x4 utility? The chassis number points to it being a genuine station wagon. Might be mistaken, my minds all over the shop at the moment!

tacr2man said:

Re insurance dont be that concerned about it as the range of prices for either would be more significant . think you are spending too long contemplating your navel, the end result is a 90 with seats in the back , if the LEZ thing is that important then by a genuine estate and save your self the aggravation, of trying to build one and get it reclassified.
There are several threads on various landrover fora about the possibilities or not of getting a LEZ exemption .

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I think this is good advice, I have made my mind up now just need to find the right one

cube1729 said:

Thanks everyone for the information. I intend to fully restore the Defender when I get one, I want the station wagon as I intend to use it as my primary car. I don't have children, so that isn't a concern but from time to time I will have friends in the back. I was intending to fit two forward facing seats in the rear with three point seatbelts, although they will probably spend most of the time folded.

If you were to compare insurance, would a factory CSW be cheaper than a converted CSW of the same age, condition etc or would it be comparable?

As for LEZ I have been told that you can register to be LEZ exempt even if the your CSW isn't a factory built one, does anyone know if this is true or not?

In truth I'm not too worried about these questions but I like to understand all the implications so I can make an informed purchase.

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If you just want the ability to carry 4 people comfortably, all you should need to do is to buy (expensive) seats, fit them, and make sure your MOT guy is happy with it (again, do check the proper rules, don't rely on my info ).

If you want to occasionally go into LEZ, borrow another car or hire one. If you regularly want to go into LEZ, look into either getting a Defender that's registered as an Estate, or look into fitting a diesel particulate filter on the Utility.

If you're going to rebuild it completely, don't worry about the CSW designation, you can spend money on sound insulation etc, and it might even be better than the factory CSW.

If you want to keep your car NCB or you want to have a multi-car policy, you need an Estate.

If more than one of the points are yes, then maybe the best starting point is an Estate.

I went with a van because a) it was several grands cheaper, b) I found the right one, c) I didn't care about windows in the back or seats (it's got a side facing seat in the back with a lap belt).

a metal spreader plate behind the alloy tub does not a secure mounting make.

Regardless of what you MOt tester says - its your passengers safety, your conscience and your ass that gets sued.

if you are retro fitting seat belts they must be anchored to the chassis as per factory on the land rover OR fitted with a type approved and pull tested fitting kit (read expensive) - which in a land rover isnt going to be possible as the rivits holding the thin alloy sheet together will tear out.....this can cause more damage than no seat belts at all in some cases.

Badly fitted and badly advised seat belts boil my ****......


its all good till someone loses an eye and then you wish you did it right.

seats on the other hand can go in on spreader plates - dont forget - front plates go on top of the floor - rear plates under - as its pulling on the rear and pushing down on the front.