Newbie - Is this handling normal ?

Hello everybody, new to the forum but have been a long time lurker. After years of driving euro boxes, and fast sports cars I finally gave into a long time dream 4 weeks ago and picked up a '98 90 300tdi hardtop and I love it.

Believe it or not until I picked it up I had never driven one, but had an idea of what to expect, and clearly wasn't expecting it to be like previous sports cars

However after speaking to a guy that drives a land rover for a living (not a bad job) I got to thinking all was not right and in fact reinforced some of the reading I have been doing. In short it's got a lift kit (2" I think - Super Gaz), bigger tyres etc. It appears to want to go wherever it likes, gets pulled all over the place in standing water, aquaplanes at 40-50 and doesn't like self centering. When I pull out of junctions you have to consciously steer it back to centre. I have read these lift kits can upset the castor unless the radius arms and stuff are also fitted which this hasn't got. I have also read that this isn't required for a 2" lift so I am confused ! Another possibly unrelated condition is in deep water I can lose power steering for a few seconds (belt ?).

So my question is, is this normal ? It's quite frightening in heavy rain

Thanks in advance, and apologies for the genuine newbieness !

Welcome lurker.

What size tyres is it sporting? And do they have any unusual wear on them?

It could be out of alignment or the tyres are just too big to control. Also you could have play in the essentials of your front end, like ball joints or bushings. Or wheel bearings or swivel problems.

Thanks for the quick response. It has brand new 265/75 16 General Grabber AT2's all round with no unusual wear (but they are only a few hundred miles old) I had it up on the ramp a few weeks ago, no wheel bearing play that was obvious to me. It also has had new a new cv joint, bearing and hub on the front offside, nearside seemed fine.

That tyre size shouldn't cause that big of problem. Have someone turn the steering wheel back and forth while your underneath and see if there is play anywhere. Also check the panhard rod bushes. You could also check and see if your alignment is bad with a measuring tape or string by measuring the distance between the front of the rims and the back of the rims while the wheels are in the straight ahead position. The measurement should be close to equal or smidgen wider at the front.

Great advice, thanks. Will take a look at this didn't think of using the tape measure :doh: It would be nice to sort it, my knuckles were white on the steering wheel on the way home tonight

Itsbigyellow said:

Great advice, thanks. Will take a look at this didn't think of using the tape measure :doh: It would be nice to sort it, my knuckles were white on the steering wheel on the way home tonight

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Actually the best way I've found to measure it is to use an old adjustable curtain rod, the kind that changes length by twisting it one direction or another, but I thought that you might be more inclined to have a tape or string.

Any unusual clunks or rattles while negotiating terrain?

Only done a bit of light green laning, no problems whatsoever. The only thing from noise perspective is when steering quickly at slow speed (particularly reversing) there is a bit of a groan.

I've got one of those curtain rods in the garage ! Knew it would come in handy

Remember a Defender is a piece of Agricultural engineering, its going to handle like a boat, especially with the lift kit.

I have the same tyres as you, handling isnt an issue as yet,

In short, welcome to the cattle shed side of landyzone,

Thanks Jonny. I understand which is why I am approaching this a bit carefully, because it might be normal. It's only cos the guy I met today said it wasn't, he had a lift kit as well and said he was trying to locate the problem on his. Honestly I have owned some fast cars with wide tyres and whilst quite hairy in the rain were nothing like this (ironically)

Mines up 2" I drive like a nutter at times and it's all good, but standing water really upsets it

Interesting, does it centre ok ?

265/75x16's were factory fit for many years so unless they are wildly aggressive (which GG AT2's aren't) then there is a problem. They are quite wide so can cause aquaplaning in VERY wet conditions but on a normal wet road there shouldn't be any issues.

Anyone who says that a Land Rover will wander, need constant steering input, go around corners at odd angles or similar comments is talking rot and simply can't be bother to set-up or maintain their own vehicle correctly. When corrently set up even a lifted (+2in) vehicle should have good road manners, we're not talking sports car here but nothing that should cause concern under normal circumstances.

With regards to the loss of PAS when wet you are corrent in thinking it is the belt slipping. This is quite normal as the belt will have less grip when subjected to a soaking but it shouldn't happen very often (normally you will also see the charge light glow at the same time) so perhaps the belt is worn / loose? I would say adjust the tension but a 300TDi has an auto tensioner so perhaps you need to make sure it is working correctly and the belt is good.

Thanks Litch. I have a manual that says the power steering pump can be either driven by a separate belt from the alternator or the main timing belt (if I read it correctly) I have had a brief look at I can see the timing belt (replaced two months ago) and the alternator so my guess is my engine falls into the latter of the two. I will take a more detailed look at the weekend, it was getting dark when I took my first look. If it does though, that is a relatively new belt and I can see the tensioner is working fine, belt tension seemed good.

Itsbigyellow said:

Thanks Litch. I have a manual that says the power steering pump can be either driven by a separate belt from the alternator or the main timing belt (if I read it correctly) I have had a brief look at I can see the timing belt (replaced two months ago) and the alternator so my guess is my engine falls into the latter of the two. I will take a more detailed look at the weekend, it was getting dark when I took my first look. If it does though, that is a relatively new belt and I can see the tensioner is working fine, belt tension seemed good.

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not on defender its allways by an ancillary belt whever engine has 1 or more

Thanks James, will take another look.

You may have a bad steering box, or one that wasn't centered properly. I know from experience there are many ways to get it wrong when dealing with a front end as a zealous neophyte. If the front end was improperly reassembled after fitting new bits like the track rod or replacing ball joints, things can get weird. Check your steering box for play, take a look at the position of the steering arm when your wheels are pointing straight ahead. Also, take note of the position of your steering wheel in the straight ahead position.

Get your curtain rod out and go look at this stuff and report back.

Itsbigyellow said:

Only done a bit of light green laning, no problems whatsoever. The only thing from noise perspective is when steering quickly at slow speed (particularly reversing) there is a bit of a groan.

I've got one of those curtain rods in the garage ! Knew it would come in handy

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That groan when steering is usually either steering box seals or steering pump seals on their way out.

Or check tightness of power steering pipes, the groan is down to air being let in the system.

Great advice from everybody, thanks very much indeed. This weekend armed with my curtain pole and torch I will take a look and see what I can dig up.

Sounds just like mine, 2" lift and 265/75/16's. I let my dad drive it the other day, he nearly crashed coming off a roundabout expecting it to straighten itself up. Standing water upsets mine to, but I'm used to it!

TomKermitNixon said:

Sounds just like mine, 2" lift and 265/75/16's. I let my dad drive it the other day, he nearly crashed coming off a roundabout expecting it to straighten itself up. Standing water upsets mine to, but I'm used to it!

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Lol, that's the last time you let him in that then ! Mind you, I have nearly done something similar.