recomend a good wax

This site contains affiliate links for which LandyZone may be compensated if you make a purchase.
No why would you say that? I service the engine, I have over 120K on the clock, I have owned it from almost new 5k on the clock

Yeah, sorry, my point is that you don't need to respray a lot of the time. Some peeps might have had the beemer sprayed which would have ruined it. All it needed was some (overpriced) TLC. As it goes that 6 grand included 4 wheel refurbs and 2 front tyres. Still a f'in bargain to be sure :(

Anyway, if you had a Series 1 with faded paint but completely original, would you respray it or have it gently restored? Which leaves the vehicle worth more money? That was the point I was trying (badly) to make. Resprays are more of a last resort when nothing else can fix the problem, and there's not enough bodyshops capable of producing high quality work nowadays. Blame insurance companies for driving down standards in the name of reducing costs but facts are facts, too much shoddy work about these days. Better to restore what's there if at all possible.
 
Beemer looked good when finished. But washing it with a brillo pad was a bad idea to cause detailing to be required.

:hysterically_laughi:hysterically_laughi That would be 3000 grade wet and dry I imagine, although it did look like a brillo jobbie. Unorthodox but less invasive than respraying the whole car.

Amazing what can be done with a few coats of lacquer and a buffer ain't it.
No lacquer involved, just flatting off what was there and re-polishing. And about 6 coats of his (f'in stupidly overpriced) "Crystal Rock" wax no doubt. A snip at 800 odd quid a pot :doh: (note the free delivery :D )
Swissvax Crystal Rock Paul Dalton Carnauba Wax | FREE UK Delivery

Still can't believe the bloke paid 6 grand for it though. Why don't those money trees come my way ????
 
..........I don't do detailing. I am a painter so know a thing or two about polishing and paint defects :cool:

Sure enough, but I also paint, and have all the other skills such as lead filling and grp moulding etc so I too know a little about it. And PROPER detailing is an art in itself, not a replacement or competition to a respray. Two different beasts altogether. I was very 'warning orientated' in my post, also stating use a DA if you are a first timer due to not losing your enthusiasm with a rotory and losing your paint too!

"........I cant see the link between being a hairy arsed painter and the fineties of polishing a car. Especially when the car looks that good!!

:mooning:


Fuse lit...:pop2:............

I agree that the car looks great and the finish awesome so yes I agree, whats to argue about huh? AS I say two different fields.....but anyone who says detailing is all bull**** and buff.... the results speak for themselves no?



Without the painter getting the finish right in the first place you wouldn't have anything to polish ;).

Well not necessarily, sometimes I guess by my efforts have been due to years of not caring for the paintwork and misuse when washing the car by previous owners... surely you are not all suggesting instead of detailing the car I shoul djust fork out 5 times the amount for a respray?! :rolleyes:

Looking at it from the other side I have had to respray cars that have been "detailed" to death. ............ I had an Escalade in that had been customed and detailed which was a right mess. The car belonged to a guy called Mr R. Ferdinand.

Agreed, hence why I use a paint depth guage...

I give up. I will leave all of you detailers to discuss away. My 27 years of professionalism and experience means sod all because afterall you know so much more than me. How silly of me to think that I could contribute anything of value. One last question. Why do detailers use DA polish machines? Answer because they lack the skill to use a rotary.

pram over.....toys all over the place.....:p

I think you will find that a falsehood........ many probably MOST detailers use a rotary, I suggest using a DA if the job isnt that bad or you are a beginner.

Nobody (certainly not I) suggests you know nothing BUT just stating that detailing IS its own thing and IS an alternative if done properly to a respray. My Vogue now looks a hundred times better close up with virtually no swirls and no scratched now I have detailed it..... but it didnt warrent thousands of pounds of respray did it?!

There is enough room for both fields here...... detailing for cars that have an ok base to work from and resprays for those too far gone. Anyone that says that detailing isnt worth it or is easy or is a crap alternative to resprays quite frankly is pretty closed minded.

296609_10150446961029808_754489807_10321860_1180271475_n.jpg


374639_10150446961134808_754489807_10321863_10052952_n.jpg


378420_10150437716379808_754489807_10260920_789953272_n.jpg
 
:hysterically_laughi:hysterically_laughi That would be 3000 grade wet and dry I imagine, although it did look like a brillo jobbie. Unorthodox but less invasive than respraying the whole car.


No lacquer involved, just flatting off what was there and re-polishing. And about 6 coats of his (f'in stupidly overpriced) "Crystal Rock" wax no doubt. A snip at 800 odd quid a pot :doh: (note the free delivery :D )
Swissvax Crystal Rock Paul Dalton Carnauba Wax | FREE UK Delivery

Still can't believe the bloke paid 6 grand for it though. Why don't those money trees come my way ????

Just ordered four tubs, to good to miss at that price. :D:D:D Steam cleaner and a bit of Turtle wax now and again does the job for me. :):)
 
Anyway, if you had a Series 1 with faded paint but completely original, would you respray it or have it gently restored? Which leaves the vehicle worth more money?

Well i have a SII (1958) so its almost a SI when I got it it was sprayed by a m8 of mine who works at BMW he used to take the panels in a few at a time and do it, about 2k worth of work done on it (I got it for beer ££ though)


dcp_2433.jpg

Mirror1-2.jpg

DCP_1206_edited-1.jpg


DCP_1860.jpg


and my RR

dcp_2739-1.jpg


dcp_2737-1.jpg
 
I have not thrown anything out of my pram. I am sick and tired of people who come along and make statements like the comments made about the BMW. After 60 hours of work it should be like a sheet of glass. When you compare that a painter returning a panel to original after repair gets about 20 minutes to de nib and polish you might get my point. Why would you sand using 3000 when 2000 is adequate for the job and the surface will cut back easily using materials designed to cut and finish. If you want to look into the chemistry then the modern car is painted using 2 part high solids acrylic clear which once cured is sealed. Even the cheapest of waxes will have the affect of beading water and giving it a nice shine. I once went head to head at a demonstration day with a detailer and at the end I gave panel wipe to the lads watching. Mine withstood it because the panel had been polished but the detailed car failed miserably due to the filler content in the products used masking the abrasions on the surface. The wax doesn't bond to the surface of the paint it sits in the troughs between the crystal structure of the clear. That is another common claim.
 
I have not thrown anything out of my pram.
Yeah, you did.

I am sick and tired of people who come along and make statements like the comments made about the BMW. After 60 hours of work it should be like a sheet of glass. When you compare that a painter returning a panel to original after repair gets about 20 minutes to de nib and polish you might get my point.

Be as sick and tired as you like. It's a free world. Still don't understand your point though. You seem to be highlighting my point, that Detailers take care and do the job thoroughly whereas bodyshops rush everything through as "That'll do".

Why would you sand using 3000 when 2000 is adequate for the job and the surface will cut back easily using materials designed to cut and finish.

Well because "adequate" is one of those weasel words in the same vein as "good enough" or "that'll do". Besides, 3000 and 4000 are a lot less brutal than 2000. Why remove more material than is absolutely necessary? That comes down to a choice between right or rushed again.

I once went head to head at a demonstration day with a detailer and at the end I gave panel wipe to the lads watching. Mine withstood it because the panel had been polished but the detailed car failed miserably due to the filler content in the products used masking the abrasions on the surface.

Any photos of the 2 side by side? See, the kind of products most favoured by detailers don't use fillers. Products which do such as Autoglym SRP for example would tend to be used by a Valeter or a car dealer, someone who wants the thing to look good until the next wash.
 
Yeah, you did.



Be as sick and tired as you like. It's a free world. Still don't understand your point though. You seem to be highlighting my point, that Detailers take care and do the job thoroughly whereas bodyshops rush everything through as "That'll do".



Well because "adequate" is one of those weasel words in the same vein as "good enough" or "that'll do". Besides, 3000 and 4000 are a lot less brutal than 2000. Why remove more material than is absolutely necessary? That comes down to a choice between right or rushed again.



Any photos of the 2 side by side? See, the kind of products most favoured by detailers don't use fillers. Products which do such as Autoglym SRP for example would tend to be used by a Valeter or a car dealer, someone who wants the thing to look good until the next wash.
Mate you obviously do not understand the chemistry involved with the products you are using. In this instance the term filler is used to describe a material which is added to bulk out and fill imperfections. Even the dreaded Farecla G3 contained fillers. My whole point is it is no good being anal and stressing that bodyshops do it wrong when they have been around for a very long time and will be here long after the detailing fad has gone. Their isn't a single detailer who is better than a painter but the majority are very good at marketing and not frightened to stretch it out, after all you have to fill the 60 hours and you can only watch so much telly. The OP didn't ask for a blow by blow on how to waste 60 hours of his life. He wanted a recommendation for a wax for his car. Please read what I have written carefully because I do know all about the chemistry of the products used. I work closely with a few suppliers to test products before they hit the open market.
 
Oh, do I not? How would you know? You know nothing about me. You don't know how old I am, how educated I might be, the industry I work in, you know Jack Schitt about me in total.

Did you seriously believe I thought there was some kind of liquid P38 in polishes? :hysterically_laughi:hysterically_laughi You really shouldn't judge everyone else by your own standards.

Like it or not, detailing isn't a fad. Been around in various forms for decades, ever since the first Concourse d' Elegance in fact. Still be around when you smell like compost too.

As for there being no detailer who's as good as a painter, well that about says it all really. If it were even close to being true then the business would not survive. All the facts point to it getting bigger as an industry so it seems your opinion is rather wide of the mark.

You know, I have read what you wrote, all very carefully. You started by claiming detailing was bollocks, then moved on to describing polishing as rubbing some wax on a car with a cloth, then to reckoning you could get the same finish on that BMW in 8 hours, namedropping, and now claiming to beta test products. Your arguments and points are at best inconsistent, and at worst, unbelievable. Detailing is a very large part of the gold standard in the industry, there's no getting away from that. Just doesn't sit too well with you paint guys I guess, not sure why that might be though.

So you know all about the chemistry of this industry then do you? Study at Bristol did you? Or possibly Leicester? Well, with 27 years experience it would have been in the early 80's and there weren't too many Uni's offering chemistry degrees back then. Can't think why I might know that ;)
 
Oh, do I not? How would you know? You know nothing about me. You don't know how old I am, how educated I might be, the industry I work in, you know Jack Schitt about me in total.

Did you seriously believe I thought there was some kind of liquid P38 in polishes? :hysterically_laughi:hysterically_laughi You really shouldn't judge everyone else by your own standards.

Like it or not, detailing isn't a fad. Been around in various forms for decades, ever since the first Concourse d' Elegance in fact. Still be around when you smell like compost too.

As for there being no detailer who's as good as a painter, well that about says it all really. If it were even close to being true then the business would not survive. All the facts point to it getting bigger as an industry so it seems your opinion is rather wide of the mark.

You know, I have read what you wrote, all very carefully. You started by claiming detailing was bollocks, then moved on to describing polishing as rubbing some wax on a car with a cloth, then to reckoning you could get the same finish on that BMW in 8 hours, namedropping, and now claiming to beta test products. Your arguments and points are at best inconsistent, and at worst, unbelievable. Detailing is a very large part of the gold standard in the industry, there's no getting away from that. Just doesn't sit too well with you paint guys I guess, not sure why that might be though.

So you know all about the chemistry of this industry then do you? Study at Bristol did you? Or possibly Leicester? Well, with 27 years experience it would have been in the early 80's and there weren't too many Uni's offering chemistry degrees back then. Can't think why I might know that ;)
You are beginning to bore me know. I appreciate the hard work put in to obtain a good finish but it takes the **** when some detailer then claims that it takes 60 hours. That is the bit which is without doubt complete bollocks. If he used the correct tools and materiasls instead of fannying around then I wouldn't have any reason to laugh would I. If you understand as much as you say you do then you will know that your comment about p38 in polish is humorous. Car body filler in polish, really. You are obviously referring to my earlier post about custom shops burying cars in filler before they paint. This is a common practice in the states when restoring cars and this is where the detail bit started to come about in the late 50's. The filler in compound and polish is added to keep them in suspension and the secondary effect is to give false gloss when polishing. I will stand by what my opinion is. Anyone can valet a car without training or understanding what they are using. Painting takes a great deal of skill and dexterity which can't be learned in a day. What do you do professionally because I paint and just happen to be a director of the company. I don't do this as a hobby.
 
dsolds and rob edge, just wanted to say that following your exchange has been very educational and i particulary admire that you have (mostly) not descended into a slagging match which is they way many debates seem to head these days.
 
Well, it's not personal, it's just different opinions. The point at which personal insults enter the fray is the point where the argument is lost.
 
You are beginning to bore me know. I appreciate the hard work put in to obtain a good finish but it takes the **** when some detailer then claims that it takes 60 hours. That is the bit which is without doubt complete bollocks. If he used the correct tools and materiasls instead of fannying around then I wouldn't have any reason to laugh would I.

OK, you're not bored or you wouldn't have posted back. But what is apparent is that you haven't read the thread in question. So, to summarise for you, that 60 hours included:
4 Wheel refurbs (Tyres off)
2 new tyres
Full carpet shampoo (seats out)
Leather seats re-connolised
Full engine bay clean (properly, not just spraying silicon everywhere)
Full body sand and polish
3 coats of wax.
Now, you can see from reading my previous posts that I have already stated quite openly that the price was ridiculous, but that's based on an hourly rate no doubt. So if we remove cost from this, 60 hours is probably about right to get it all to that standard.


If you understand as much as you say you do then you will know that your comment about p38 in polish is humorous. Car body filler in polish, really. You are obviously referring to my earlier post about custom shops burying cars in filler before they paint. This is a common practice in the states when restoring cars and this is where the detail bit started to come about in the late 50's. The filler in compound and polish is added to keep them in suspension and the secondary effect is to give false gloss when polishing.

Oh, I fully understand the difference between body fillers and the synthetic polymer fillers used in certain car products, the example I gave being Autoglym Super Resin Polish, the name of which is an oxymoron anyway. It is a protectant, not a polish. However, the vast majority of detailing products don't contain the fillers, and my personal choice (Menzerna) certainly don't. So I reiterate, any "detailer" who uses products with fillers to hide swirls and marks is actually a Valeter.

I will stand by what my opinion is. Anyone can valet a car without training or understanding what they are using. Painting takes a great deal of skill and dexterity which can't be learned in a day.

Yes, it's a free world and you are entitled to an opinion. I still don't have to agree with it though. Detailing is a skill, not one learned overnight as you already acknowledged with your recognition of the skill needed to use a rotary polisher. Spraying paint is also a skill but as you will already know, the real skill which forms 90% of the end result is the preparation, right?? Doesn't matter how talented the painter, painting a crap surface gives crap results every time. However, spraying was much more of a skill back in the days of cellulose paint, no ovens and much lower tech equipment.
Note that I am referring to straight painting stuff like cars. I still consider custom stuff like big metal flake and airbrush art like you see on trucks etc to be a lot more specialised. But that's not what we're discussing here.

What do you do professionally because I paint and just happen to be a director of the company. I don't do this as a hobby.

Yeah, plenty of things. A short resumé then.
1981-84. Chemistry degree. Supported myself by working in a paint shop, amongst other things spraying stainless trims for Delorean cars. This is where I learned to spray.
84-91. Lab Technician. Major chemical company.
91-97. Chemical Process Engineer. Another major chemical company.
97-01. Works engineering designer at a large chemical plant. Implementing CNC into chemical engineering works
01 to now basically. Business Process Engineer. Tier-1 Service Provider in I.T. End client is petro-chemical company as you might have guessed.
In 02-06 I also did another OU degree, a masters in Business Studies.
So those are the jobs, very abbreviated.

Now I also own 40% of a classic VW restoration company and yes, I still get down and dirty if I have to. Still capable of painting if required, and spannering, oh and even welding if I really cant avoid it.

My detailing hobby (to use your word) was a natural spin off from the VW stuff for one or two customers who wanted concours standard. It pays well enough although not to 6 grand levels but that's not really why I do it. Seeing silverware, and there has been quite a bit of that, the quest for perfection etc, that is the passion, not the numbers.

Whereas if it were my profession then every job is only going to get as much attention as is being paid for, a far more mercenary approach, as you would know being a company director. After all, the books have to balance, which is the achilles heel of just about every bodyshop. It is a business 1st and foremost, the daily grind, it pays the bills, has to be done, whatever. Detailing is more about passion and how some people choose to spend their free time (hobbies) which is why the quality is invariably higher. Very few people make a living from detailing, it's a lot easier to do that from valeting.
 
Back
Top