Diesel Hard to Start

cheezels · Sep 1, 2011

OK, been a while since I've been here but now I've got another problem....sorry, I meant challenge.

My 2.25 diesel had been left un started for a few months (been away working) and it was a B'stard to start. In this case the fuel seemed to need priming and eventually the old girl coughed into life.

Now, if I leave it overnite, it won't start without a lot (and I mean alot) of cranking.

There is a bit of white smoke coming through, so it looks like it's getting fuel but I don't think the glow plugs are working. I've measured the voltage on each of them to be 12V (they're the 'new' type), but whilst checking them I noticed the wire connection 'cap' to be loose on all of them. So much so that they can be pulled off. See pic.

I removed one of the plugs and held the ignition on to test it, laying it on the block to hopefully earth it. After 30 secs of 'glowing' it wasn't warm at all. I'm a bit surprised as there seems to be a goodish connection.

I'm also surprised she's hard to start as it's quite warm over here. Around 25'C.

She never used to be a pig to start (and isn't when hot).

Soooo, new glow plugs? How do I test them properly.

Maybe leaky injectors. Would explain the fuel disappearing whilst she was in lay up.

Anyways, all thoughts appreciated.

Cheers

PS - Have attached another pic of the glow plug wiring around the resitor, just to make sure it's right.

Oldseadog · Sep 1, 2011

Looks like your glow plugs are knackered! Don't just replace one, replace the lot! They should be wired in through and the little nut on the top is there to make the electrical connection. They are not designed to be pulled off!

If you have a mullti-meter, you will find that if your plugs are working you should get a voltage of around 10V as they heat up, due to the current/voltage drop on load. If you don't, they ain't working!

Start with the obvious things first and let's know how you get on.

OSD

cheezels · Sep 2, 2011

Would anyone mind taking a pic or two of their 12V glow plug connection.

I've surfed around the 'net but the only pic I've seen looks just like mine, so I'm not sure why they're not working.

Cheers

rog8811 · Sep 2, 2011

I hope the following will be of some help.
First pic is the only actual photo I have of the modern type plugs.
Second shows the way you need to wire them, bypassing the the balast resistor but keeping the indicator lamp.
Third schematic of new type wiring
The last one is to show the old type to be totaly sure which you have.

cheezels · Sep 2, 2011

Hi Rog8811,

Are they the 12 Volt type as the tops where the red wire connects to, looks a little different to mine.

Where did you buy them?

Cheers

david451 · Sep 2, 2011

cheezels said:
OK, been a while since I've been here but now I've got another problem....sorry, I meant challenge.

My 2.25 diesel had been left un started for a few months (been away working) and it was a B'stard to start. In this case the fuel seemed to need priming and eventually the old girl coughed into life.

Now, if I leave it overnite, it won't start without a lot (and I mean alot) of cranking.

There is a bit of white smoke coming through, so it looks like it's getting fuel but I don't think the glow plugs are working. I've measured the voltage on each of them to be 12V (they're the 'new' type), but whilst checking them I noticed the wire connection 'cap' to be loose on all of them. So much so that they can be pulled off. See pic.

I removed one of the plugs and held the ignition on to test it, laying it on the block to hopefully earth it. After 30 secs of 'glowing' it wasn't warm at all. I'm a bit surprised as there seems to be a goodish connection.

I'm also surprised she's hard to start as it's quite warm over here. Around 25'C.

She never used to be a pig to start (and isn't when hot).

Soooo, new glow plugs? How do I test them properly.

Maybe leaky injectors. Would explain the fuel disappearing whilst she was in lay up.

Anyways, all thoughts appreciated.

Cheers

PS - Have attached another pic of the glow plug wiring around the resitor, just to make sure it's right.

These engines start without heat no problems, stick a new fuel filter on it and make sure the fuel aint running back. Also make sure the engine stop valve aint sticking since its been laying for ages, or the lift pump has died.

cheezels · Sep 2, 2011

New fuel filter fitted 4 or 5 months ago and the separator was cleaned out.

I'll check the lift pump, but I'm pretty sure there is fuel getting through judging by the white smoke whilst it's cranking over.

Where is the stop valve?

Must admit, that's the first time I've heard that these engines are easy to start cold

rog8811 · Sep 2, 2011

Are they the 12 Volt type as the tops where the red wire connects to, looks a little different to mine

Yes they are, the earth return is through the body of each plug to the cylinder head, as the photo shows the old earth from the series plugs is left disconnected. they came ready fitted to Clyde so not sure where they are from.

cheezels · Sep 3, 2011

Gave her a squirt of "Start ya Bastard" (honestly, that's the name on the tin) and it fired first time.

This suggests the fuel system is OK so I pulled out a couple of glow plugs. One of them read around 500 ohms the other infinity. This was measuring from the top to the bottom.

Is this the way to check them?

I think I'm in the market for some new plugs, so which 12 Volt ones are the go?

Cheers

nrgserv · Sep 3, 2011

white smoke is typical of unburnt diesel, so probably not a fuel issue.
if your on the new type plugs, bypass the ballast resistor as said above, and
fit a new set of plugs from fleabay.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/LAND-ROVER-4-HEATER-GLOW-PLUGS-2-5-NA-TURBO-/

rog8811 · Sep 3, 2011

If they are the newer parallel ones you are going to take them out, put them one at a time across the battery to see which ones work.

If some work I am surprised you have trouble starting as one of the reasons for using them is that if you lose one the others should still work.

Make sure all of the terminals are tight as a loose conection in the wrong place ensures that none of them work.

Oldseadog · Sep 4, 2011

Are you still getting lots of white smoke? Have you had the fuel pump off? If so, it could be that when you have put it back together, you are not advanced sufficiently for there to be a good burn in the cylinders.

Once you have got it running ... however rough it is, try advancing the fuel timing by turning the pump clockwise a few degrees.

Hope this helps.

OSD

cheezels · Sep 5, 2011

Only white smoke whilst cranking. Fairly clean at idle, but black under hard acceleration (if you can call it that).

Think it is glow plugs, but surprised I need them when the weather is warm (25 degrees in new money).

I'm thinking new battery, as it started on a wiff of 'Start Ya Bastard' from cold.

david451 · Sep 5, 2011

cheezels said:
Only white smoke whilst cranking. Fairly clean at idle, but black under hard acceleration (if you can call it that).

Think it is glow plugs, but surprised I need them when the weather is warm (25 degrees in new money).

I'm thinking new battery, as it started on a wiff of 'Start Ya Bastard' from cold.

Loads of white smoke is unburnt fuel, low compression or timing retarded as mentioned above. Black smoke is overfueling or lack of air, blocked air filter.

Diesel Hard to Start

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