L

LR-hobbs

Active Member
Hello everyone again
I've managed to get myself a new ICARSOFT CR MAX and plugged it into my dad's l322 mentioned in my previous posts to try and sort the air suspension inactive issues.

This is the fault codes listed

P0443 : STATE NONE : evaporative emission system purge control valve circuit driven cycle c. Cause -signal fault


P1614: state none : electric thermostat circuit open.
Drive cycle A cause -signal fault

57 state( current) air suspension inactive/ active

78 state (pervious) left dip beam headlight defective

32 state (none) CAN BUS FAULT

74 STATE (NONE) Reservoir pressure static when filling

69 state (none) too much energy for regulation needed :rear right
Air suspension module can bus fault

Pre charge pump.

Anyone with more knowledge than me let me know the next step. I have been battling this air suspension since we bought it

Thank you for reading.
 
Ok I dont know the codes your diagnostics is giving.
But.

Did you read them, then clear them, then see what came back?

Does the compressor actually run?
If yes then the chances are its either US or you have a leak to the tank/or leaky tank.
If no then maybe thats your can errors and your problem.

The last fault says to me that, its trying to lift but cant.

The system will go "inactive" to conserve the air in the system (if it has any) if it sees a weak compressor or leak.

Not seen your posts on the the problem, but may have been better to keep it in the 1 place.

Maybe not much help but asking questions can often bring thought, or others in.


J
 
If the compressor is running, it could be a hole in the air tank but the bit that interests me here is the signal fault on a couple of components. I had a similar (but not the same) issue and found that on some cars, the spare wheel can damage the wiring loom going into the compressor, that would be worth investigating to make sure you have connectivity to there as if you've got broken wires to the temp sensor on the compressor and the pressure switch in that valve block, also there's the pressure release solenoid on that harness I think.
IMG_1077.jpeg
 
marjon said:
Ok I dont know the codes your diagnostics is giving.
But.

Did you read them, then clear them, then see what came back?

Does the compressor actually run?
If yes then the chances are its either US or you have a leak to the tank/or leaky tank.
If no then maybe thats your can errors and your problem.

The last fault says to me that, its trying to lift but cant.

The system will go "inactive" to conserve the air in the system (if it has any) if it sees a weak compressor or leak.

Not seen your posts on the the problem, but may have been better to keep it in the 1 place.

Maybe not much help but asking questions can often bring thought, or others in.


J
Click to expand...
The compressor is brand new , we replaced it recently. Due to a previous diagnostic report.
 
Blob said:
If the compressor is running, it could be a hole in the air tank but the bit that interests me here is the signal fault on a couple of components. I had a similar (but not the same) issue and found that on some cars, the spare wheel can damage the wiring loom going into the compressor, that would be worth investigating to make sure you have connectivity to there as if you've got broken wires to the temp sensor on the compressor and the pressure switch in that valve block, also there's the pressure release solenoid on that harness I think. View attachment 337267
Click to expand...
That's definitely worth a looks as not long after we bought the car , I found the spare wheel well full of water. The spare wheel seems to cause some issues.
 
I'm amazed at how many people experience similar problems with the suspension compressor and don't understand how it works and why the computers are confused enough to shut things down. I'm a computer geek so let me point out that cpomputers are only as useful when they are programmed well. The BMW programmers (and yes, Beemers have the same problems as the Rovers), being German, seem to believe nothing will every go wrong so they write programs that cannot react well when they get duff data.

But back to the compressors in our Rovers (and BMWs). Most of these problems stem from the motor over heating which the software detects and results in the motor being turned off to protect it! Why does a motor overheat? It overheats when it has to run longer than it was designed and tested to do. Why does it run longer? That depends. Most people, once they figure out the motor is running a lot, assume they have a leak somewhere. They might, but often they don't. Leaks usually result in one or more corners of the vehicle sagging down badly. The other reason the motor runs longer than it should is because it can't get enough air through it to raise the system pressure to where the user wants it.

It is common to see people notice that the sintered metal filter on the compressor exhaust is clogged with bluey, green or white deposits. These deposits are calcium left by the water that is exhausted from the dryer. When air is compressed water condenses out of the compressed air. This is why fresh air is drawn in through the dryer, a chamber full of desiccant, that absorbs moisture from the air so our air suspension is not contaminated with it. When air is released from the suspension system, it vents through the desiccant, blowing excess moisture out the exhaust vent. Some dries on and in the metal mesh and accumulates to eventually block any air from entering or leaving.

This is enough to make the motor run too long and overheat. If left uncorrected the motor will eventually burn out.

However, people are not wondering whats happening inside the dryer. If a lot of water remains in the dryer for a long period, the desiccant can degrade and begin to resemble clay. If you live in a humid place, as I do, you would be wise to replace the desiccant regularly. In the UK I believe Rover says every three years. Here on the Oregon coast I've been changing mine more often as it breaks down quicker in our liquid sunshine state.

If you've already drilled holes in the metal exhaust filter it already past time to service the dryer. If you choose to do this, use the correct desiccant. It looks like little beige balls of clay. It may be Bentonite. Here in the US desiccant is sold as blue beads intended for one time use to protect electronics when being shipped. These are a gel that will break down even faster than the correct stuff. There is a company in the UK, 4x4 Air Seals, that sells a kit that includes new O rings and filters, but I'm sure there must be other sources.

So, if you're getting funny messages about suspension faults, being restricted to 30 mph, etc. It's the dumb BMW computer programming that will not let you raise or lower the suspension, or even drive very fast, because it knows your compressor is currently unable to add air to the reservoir if needed, so in a roundabout way, it just says "Suspension fault", when it should probably say, "I can't breath! The compressor pump is too congested! Stop for a while and let the pump cool off and I may be able to carry on. Or not. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe you need to get a new compressor. It will have a nice clear un-congested dryer and exhaust vent.

So, with a few bucks, a little work dismantling and cleaning the dryer your pump may survive for another year or until the next time the dryer gets clogged up. Of course, you may already be too late and the heat has worn down the piston rings so the pump has to keep running to keep up, even when it can breathe.

After you've cleaned out the compressors lungs so to speak, you probably need to go and undo all the messing around you did with the controls and a GAP iiD OBDII gadget. Recalibrate and set the ride height per the "Guided instructions" before getting creative and storing your own custom settings. Oh, and while you're at it, learn how the ride height 'inhibit' button works. people often have no idea how pressing this button affects the suspension settings. It be used when the vehicle is in the "Access" mode (lower ride height), stationary, in park. It is used then to keep the vehicle lowered for an extended period, perhaps while entering a low clearance overhead parking lot or garage door. It will reset if the vehicle is driven over 25 mph, I think. It's not obvious when it is in or out but the LED on it should illuminate when it's active. Note, it does not function in 'Off Road" mode (highest ride height) but can be used to lock the suspension in "Highway Mode", that's when the suspension lowers an inch at speeds over 55 mph on a freeway, while passing through a town or speed restriction.

Sorry, this is a long one but I'm tired of reading all sorts of inane answers to questions about "Suspension fault" issues.
 
bkwanab said:
I'm amazed at how many people experience similar problems with the suspension compressor and don't understand how it works and why the computers are confused enough to shut things down. I'm a computer geek so let me point out that cpomputers are only as useful when they are programmed well. The BMW programmers (and yes, Beemers have the same problems as the Rovers), being German, seem to believe nothing will every go wrong so they write programs that cannot react well when they get duff data.

But back to the compressors in our Rovers (and BMWs). Most of these problems stem from the motor over heating which the software detects and results in the motor being turned off to protect it! Why does a motor overheat? It overheats when it has to run longer than it was designed and tested to do. Why does it run longer? That depends. Most people, once they figure out the motor is running a lot, assume they have a leak somewhere. They might, but often they don't. Leaks usually result in one or more corners of the vehicle sagging down badly. The other reason the motor runs longer than it should is because it can't get enough air through it to raise the system pressure to where the user wants it.

It is common to see people notice that the sintered metal filter on the compressor exhaust is clogged with bluey, green or white deposits. These deposits are calcium left by the water that is exhausted from the dryer. When air is compressed water condenses out of the compressed air. This is why fresh air is drawn in through the dryer, a chamber full of desiccant, that absorbs moisture from the air so our air suspension is not contaminated with it. When air is released from the suspension system, it vents through the desiccant, blowing excess moisture out the exhaust vent. Some dries on and in the metal mesh and accumulates to eventually block any air from entering or leaving.

This is enough to make the motor run too long and overheat. If left uncorrected the motor will eventually burn out.

However, people are not wondering whats happening inside the dryer. If a lot of water remains in the dryer for a long period, the desiccant can degrade and begin to resemble clay. If you live in a humid place, as I do, you would be wise to replace the desiccant regularly. In the UK I believe Rover says every three years. Here on the Oregon coast I've been changing mine more often as it breaks down quicker in our liquid sunshine state.

If you've already drilled holes in the metal exhaust filter it already past time to service the dryer. If you choose to do this, use the correct desiccant. It looks like little beige balls of clay. It may be Bentonite. Here in the US desiccant is sold as blue beads intended for one time use to protect electronics when being shipped. These are a gel that will break down even faster than the correct stuff. There is a company in the UK, 4x4 Air Seals, that sells a kit that includes new O rings and filters, but I'm sure there must be other sources.

So, if you're getting funny messages about suspension faults, being restricted to 30 mph, etc. It's the dumb BMW computer programming that will not let you raise or lower the suspension, or even drive very fast, because it knows your compressor is currently unable to add air to the reservoir if needed, so in a roundabout way, it just says "Suspension fault", when it should probably say, "I can't breath! The compressor pump is too congested! Stop for a while and let the pump cool off and I may be able to carry on. Or not. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe you need to get a new compressor. It will have a nice clear un-congested dryer and exhaust vent.

So, with a few bucks, a little work dismantling and cleaning the dryer your pump may survive for another year or until the next time the dryer gets clogged up. Of course, you may already be too late and the heat has worn down the piston rings so the pump has to keep running to keep up, even when it can breathe.

After you've cleaned out the compressors lungs so to speak, you probably need to go and undo all the messing around you did with the controls and a GAP iiD OBDII gadget. Recalibrate and set the ride height per the "Guided instructions" before getting creative and storing your own custom settings. Oh, and while you're at it, learn how the ride height 'inhibit' button works. people often have no idea how pressing this button affects the suspension settings. It be used when the vehicle is in the "Access" mode (lower ride height), stationary, in park. It is used then to keep the vehicle lowered for an extended period, perhaps while entering a low clearance overhead parking lot or garage door. It will reset if the vehicle is driven over 25 mph, I think. It's not obvious when it is in or out but the LED on it should illuminate when it's active. Note, it does not function in 'Off Road" mode (highest ride height) but can be used to lock the suspension in "Highway Mode", that's when the suspension lowers an inch at speeds over 55 mph on a freeway, while passing through a town or speed restriction.

Sorry, this is a long one but I'm tired of reading all sorts of inane answers to questions about "Suspension fault" issues.
Click to expand...
Very informative, we have replaced the air compressor, and I plugged in my own diagnostic scanner and found pressure static when filling , would this indicate an air tank leak ?

I did have a pre charge pump fault code but the brakes work fine.
 
bkwanab said:
I'm amazed at how many people experience similar problems with the suspension compressor and don't understand how it works and why the computers are confused enough to shut things down. I'm a computer geek so let me point out that cpomputers are only as useful when they are programmed well. The BMW programmers (and yes, Beemers have the same problems as the Rovers), being German, seem to believe nothing will every go wrong so they write programs that cannot react well when they get duff data.

But back to the compressors in our Rovers (and BMWs). Most of these problems stem from the motor over heating which the software detects and results in the motor being turned off to protect it! Why does a motor overheat? It overheats when it has to run longer than it was designed and tested to do. Why does it run longer? That depends. Most people, once they figure out the motor is running a lot, assume they have a leak somewhere. They might, but often they don't. Leaks usually result in one or more corners of the vehicle sagging down badly. The other reason the motor runs longer than it should is because it can't get enough air through it to raise the system pressure to where the user wants it.

It is common to see people notice that the sintered metal filter on the compressor exhaust is clogged with bluey, green or white deposits. These deposits are calcium left by the water that is exhausted from the dryer. When air is compressed water condenses out of the compressed air. This is why fresh air is drawn in through the dryer, a chamber full of desiccant, that absorbs moisture from the air so our air suspension is not contaminated with it. When air is released from the suspension system, it vents through the desiccant, blowing excess moisture out the exhaust vent. Some dries on and in the metal mesh and accumulates to eventually block any air from entering or leaving.

This is enough to make the motor run too long and overheat. If left uncorrected the motor will eventually burn out.

However, people are not wondering whats happening inside the dryer. If a lot of water remains in the dryer for a long period, the desiccant can degrade and begin to resemble clay. If you live in a humid place, as I do, you would be wise to replace the desiccant regularly. In the UK I believe Rover says every three years. Here on the Oregon coast I've been changing mine more often as it breaks down quicker in our liquid sunshine state.

If you've already drilled holes in the metal exhaust filter it already past time to service the dryer. If you choose to do this, use the correct desiccant. It looks like little beige balls of clay. It may be Bentonite. Here in the US desiccant is sold as blue beads intended for one time use to protect electronics when being shipped. These are a gel that will break down even faster than the correct stuff. There is a company in the UK, 4x4 Air Seals, that sells a kit that includes new O rings and filters, but I'm sure there must be other sources.

So, if you're getting funny messages about suspension faults, being restricted to 30 mph, etc. It's the dumb BMW computer programming that will not let you raise or lower the suspension, or even drive very fast, because it knows your compressor is currently unable to add air to the reservoir if needed, so in a roundabout way, it just says "Suspension fault", when it should probably say, "I can't breath! The compressor pump is too congested! Stop for a while and let the pump cool off and I may be able to carry on. Or not. Maybe tomorrow. Maybe you need to get a new compressor. It will have a nice clear un-congested dryer and exhaust vent.

So, with a few bucks, a little work dismantling and cleaning the dryer your pump may survive for another year or until the next time the dryer gets clogged up. Of course, you may already be too late and the heat has worn down the piston rings so the pump has to keep running to keep up, even when it can breathe.

After you've cleaned out the compressors lungs so to speak, you probably need to go and undo all the messing around you did with the controls and a GAP iiD OBDII gadget. Recalibrate and set the ride height per the "Guided instructions" before getting creative and storing your own custom settings. Oh, and while you're at it, learn how the ride height 'inhibit' button works. people often have no idea how pressing this button affects the suspension settings. It be used when the vehicle is in the "Access" mode (lower ride height), stationary, in park. It is used then to keep the vehicle lowered for an extended period, perhaps while entering a low clearance overhead parking lot or garage door. It will reset if the vehicle is driven over 25 mph, I think. It's not obvious when it is in or out but the LED on it should illuminate when it's active. Note, it does not function in 'Off Road" mode (highest ride height) but can be used to lock the suspension in "Highway Mode", that's when the suspension lowers an inch at speeds over 55 mph on a freeway, while passing through a town or speed restriction.

Sorry, this is a long one but I'm tired of reading all sorts of inane answers to questions about "Suspension fault" issues.
Click to expand...
Not going to go through this line by line, but there is some truth in some of what you say.
But ;).
A car that won’t rise and gives “compressor needs to cool” is generally a leak or worn compressor because of a leak. Message only seen in the L322.
Inlet air and exhaust air are 2 separate circuits.

Dropping to “motorway” and the inhibit (holding it at set height) is not available on the L322, except in access crawl, also to get to “motorway” you need to do 100mph.

So please don’t mix up the L322s and P38.

The computer may be dumb in your mind, but it shuts down and throws a fit to make the owner pay attention and to try and conserve its parts.

J
 
LR-hobbs said:
74 STATE (NONE) Reservoir pressure static when filling

69 state (none) too much energy for regulation needed :rear right
Click to expand...
This says to me the compressor can't get any pressure into the system. Not tried it but assume there's a way to disconnect the output connection and see if you can stop the air with you thumb over the hole. Assuming you don't have a pressure gauge.
If it's pumping air out then as others have said you have a leak somewhere.
 
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marjon said:
Not going to go through this line by line, but there is some truth in some of what you say.
But ;).
A car that won’t rise and gives “compressor needs to cool” is generally a leak or worn compressor because of a leak. Message only seen in the L322.
Inlet air and exhaust air are 2 separate circuits.

Dropping to “motorway” and the inhibit (holding it at set height) is not available on the L322, except in access crawl, also to get to “motorway” you need to do 100mph.

So please don’t mix up the L322s and P38.

The computer may be dumb in your mind, but it shuts down and throws a fit to make the owner pay attention and to try and conserve its parts.

J
Click to expand...
Yes, I was writing predominantly about the L322 and not the even older P38, but also the Disco's that use the same Wabco style suspension compressor.

But, you write "Inlet air and exhaust air are 2 separate circuits". I don't believe that is so, certainly not with any of the several RR compressors I've had to fix.

Consider this. The dryer is in the air intake circuit so it can absorb moisture from air being drawn in and dry it before it is pumped around the closed (hopefully) pneumatic system that operates the suspension. That moisture accumulates inside the dryer desiccant until it is expelled through the exhaust. Hopefully.

The exhaust filter is screwed into the dryer so that air being vented will help expel moisture captured in the desiccant inside the dryer chamber. This is where the moisture comes from that ends up clogging the exhaust filter.

There is no other vent on the dryer for air to enter so it has to be sucked in through the 'exhaust' filter. If air flow becomes restricted the pump has to work harder, possibly much harder, and will eventually over heat. The cylinder in the compressor has no oil lubrication. The soft iron rings will wear more when over heated, or as happened on one of my Land Rovers, the piston will seize, break the aluminium connecting rod and make a hell of a lot of noise!

Of course slow leaks will generate suspension pressure related fault codes and messages but the controllers only have limited number of messages and the processor does not have the processing logic to handle the AI (artificial Intelligence) needed to deduce which combination of errors is causing it to have a tizzy. This is common to the many microprocessors used in vehicles of this vintage.

Being a computer geek for the past 60 years I am very aware that modern microprocessors make errors if the available voltage gets too low. Most require a reliable and 'clean' 5V supply. When we start our Range Rovers the battery demand is high, not just from the starter motor drain, but all the other gadgets, such as heated steering wheel (I love mine), heated seats, heated mirrors, fans, radios, DVDs and CD players, lighting etc., etc. All the microprocessors can make a lot of errors and dump a lot of messages on the CANBUS. When trouble shooting faults codes, make sure you have cleared out the junk and that the battery is fully charged. If you don't have an IID tool or similar, disconnect both cables to the battery and hold them together for 10 - 15 seconds to ground all the microprocessor memories to clear 'out' old codes. Then reconnect them and use the vehicle to regenerate fresh codes. They will be meaningful ones. Any that have disappeared were probably the result of low voltage at some time.

While I think of it, low system voltage after cranking the motor can result in transmission faults. Cold mornings thicken the transmission fluid so the shift solenoids need full power. If the battery is low the solenoids may not function quick enough and hydraulic pressure sensors will trigger a fault. I have found that when it's cold and my battery is being loaded heating my bum, hands, mirrors, windshield and rear defogger, I manually shift through the gears for the first mile or two and never get transmission faults from early morning low voltage and high load issues. I'm looking forward to my next vehicle being purely electric. At least electrons don't leave a stain on the floor when they leak out. ;-)

Believe it or not, I got into this topic trouble shooting a parasitic battery drain problem. Our RR may only get driven once or twice a week but the battery sometimes drained low enough between uses that I started to look for electrical problems One evening I happened to hear the compressor while the RR was parked for the night. Normally I'd not hear it but happened to have the tailgate open unloading some tools. Thinking about it made me realize that if the compressor woke up a few times when the vehicle was parked it could draw down the battery pretty quickly. Opening up the compressor noise baffle let me see the exhaust vent filter was pretty clogged and wet, so the compressor was probably running long enough to really run the battery down fast.

I leave you with this thought. In one of the "Pirate of the Caribbean" movies the pirate Captain Barbossa points out the Pirate Code is "not so much as set of rules, but more like guidelines". I suggest we think of the error codes and messages our 'Pirate' Range Rover vehicles generate be treated as 'guidelines', not hard and fast indicators of what is wrong. We have to consider for ourselves what is possibly going on. A sometimes a little luck goes a long way.
 

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