A

Austin Shackles

Guest

OK, anyone got a definitive answer?

2.4 VM turbodiesel, the bloke about to do work on my mate's one says that
they use stretch bolts and thus the heads don't need re-torquing after a
run-in period.

true or false?

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
"The boys are dreaming wicked or of the bucking ranches of the night and
the jollyrodgered sea." Dylan Thomas (1914 - 1953) Under milk wood
 
In message <2ufmv05jcg45l2p6ab0fc0mge8ml1pdqab@4ax.com>
Austin Shackles <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote:

>
> OK, anyone got a definitive answer?
>
> 2.4 VM turbodiesel, the bloke about to do work on my mate's one says that
> they use stretch bolts and thus the heads don't need re-torquing after a
> run-in period.
>
> true or false?
>

True(ish)... here's the info (you'll love this....):

Tightening Sequence


11 11 11 11
1 9 3 7 5
10 2 8 4 6
11 11 11 11


Tighten 1 to 10 in sequence to 29 lb/ft
Tighten again in sequence by 40 to 45 degrees
Repeat again in sequence by 40 to 45 degrees

Tighten smaller bolts (11) to 58 lb/ft in criss-cross
sequence.

Fit all the gubbins.

Fill fluids

Run the engine for 15 mins or at least 5 miles.
Allow to cool for at least three hours.

Tighten bolts 1-10 in sequence through 15 to 20 degrees
Tighten bolts 11 to 65 lb/tf in sequence.

Dire warning - if one head gasket has been changed, all
4 must be.

I wonder how often the above gets done properly, and
why the VM has a reputation for blowing head gaskets......


Richard



--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems
 


beamendsltd wrote:
> and why the VM has a reputation for blowing head gaskets......

Me too. You would think it is a great and strong design because of the 4
seperate parts but then again it is Italian....
Kind regards,
Erik-Jan.
 
In message <41FB4F09.2C5A83C3@fotograaf.com>
Erik-Jan Geniets <ej@fotograaf.com> wrote:

>
>
> beamendsltd wrote:
> > and why the VM has a reputation for blowing head gaskets......
>
> Me too. You would think it is a great and strong design because of the 4
> seperate parts but then again it is Italian....
> Kind regards,
> Erik-Jan.

I was referring to fitting the heads properly. VM are very big
in marine engines, and used by Jeep. Very good engines *if*
maintained properly.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems
 


beamendsltd wrote:

>
> I was referring to fitting the heads properly. VM are very big
> in marine engines, and used by Jeep. Very good engines *if*
> maintained properly.
>

Maybe I prefer engines that keep going without proper maintenance.
Kind regards,
Erik-Jan.
 

"beamendsltd" <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:3693c3344d%beamendsltd@btconnect.com...
> In message <2ufmv05jcg45l2p6ab0fc0mge8ml1pdqab@4ax.com>
> Austin Shackles <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote:

>> OK, anyone got a definitive answer?
>>
>> 2.4 VM turbodiesel, the bloke about to do work on my mate's one says that
>> they use stretch bolts and thus the heads don't need re-torquing after a
>> run-in period.
>>
>> true or false?

Landrover factory manual says always use new bolts.

> True(ish)... here's the info (you'll love this....):
>
> Tightening Sequence
>
> 11 11 11 11
> 1 9 3 7 5
> 10 2 8 4 6
> 11 11 11 11
>
> Tighten 1 to 10 in sequence to 29 lb/ft
> Tighten again in sequence by 40 to 45 degrees
> Repeat again in sequence by 40 to 45 degrees

Hmmmm factory book says 4 to 8 lbf.ft, then 22lbf.ft, then 50 degrees then
another 50 degrees. Sequence as per above.

> Tighten smaller bolts (11) to 58 lb/ft in criss-cross
> sequence.
>
> Fit all the gubbins.
>
> Fill fluids
>
> Run the engine for 15 mins or at least 5 miles.
> Allow to cool for at least three hours.

Book says minimum 20 minutes then allow to go fully cold.

> Tighten bolts 1-10 in sequence through 15 to 20 degrees

Book says further 30 degrees.

> Tighten bolts 11 to 65 lb/tf in sequence.

Book says slacken and check-tighten to 65lbf.ft.

> Dire warning - if one head gasket has been changed, all
> 4 must be.

I'd go along with that, but book also mentions the following:-
1. Liners should protrude from block by 0.01-0.06mm
2. Select correct gasket thickness, piston clearance to head should be
0.85-0.94mm.
Piston Protrusion at TDC plus clearance = compressed gasket thickness.
Part no's:- 1.42mm, 22030460B
1.52mm, 22032043A
1.62mm, 22030461B
Whatever cylinder requires the thickest gasket, that is the thickness that
is fitted to all cylinders.
3. Use only a hex socket, not bi-hex.

> I wonder how often the above gets done properly, and
> why the VM has a reputation for blowing head gaskets......
>

Book also goes on to give the following info for tappet clearances:-

open adjust
1 7
8 2
5 3
4 6
7 1
2 8
3 5
6 4

Not "rule of 9", unusual that.

Also says they can be done as follows:-
With no.1 rocking, adjust 4 and vice-versa,
repeat for 2 and 3.
Have fun.
Badger.




 
Badger wrote:

> Book also goes on to give the following info for tappet clearances:-
>
> open adjust
> 1 7
> 8 2
> 5 3
> 4 6
> 7 1
> 2 8
> 3 5
> 6 4
>
> Not "rule of 9", unusual that.
>
> Also says they can be done as follows:-
> With no.1 rocking, adjust 4 and vice-versa,

Different firing order to standard 1-3-4-2 I suspect. Could be 1-3-2-4
or something?
 
In message <ctfqqc$rrp$1@hercules.btinternet.com>
"Badger" <brianhattonnospammers@beeeteeeinnit.com> wrote:

>
> "beamendsltd" <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote in message
> news:3693c3344d%beamendsltd@btconnect.com...
> > In message <2ufmv05jcg45l2p6ab0fc0mge8ml1pdqab@4ax.com>
> > Austin Shackles <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote:
>
> >> OK, anyone got a definitive answer?
> >>
> >> 2.4 VM turbodiesel, the bloke about to do work on my mate's one says that
> >> they use stretch bolts and thus the heads don't need re-torquing after a
> >> run-in period.
> >>
> >> true or false?
>
> Landrover factory manual says always use new bolts.
>
> > True(ish)... here's the info (you'll love this....):
> >
> > Tightening Sequence
> >
> > 11 11 11 11
> > 1 9 3 7 5
> > 10 2 8 4 6
> > 11 11 11 11
> >
> > Tighten 1 to 10 in sequence to 29 lb/ft
> > Tighten again in sequence by 40 to 45 degrees
> > Repeat again in sequence by 40 to 45 degrees
>
> Hmmmm factory book says 4 to 8 lbf.ft, then 22lbf.ft, then 50 degrees then
> another 50 degrees. Sequence as per above.
>
> > Tighten smaller bolts (11) to 58 lb/ft in criss-cross
> > sequence.
> >
> > Fit all the gubbins.
> >
> > Fill fluids
> >
> > Run the engine for 15 mins or at least 5 miles.
> > Allow to cool for at least three hours.
>
> Book says minimum 20 minutes then allow to go fully cold.
>
> > Tighten bolts 1-10 in sequence through 15 to 20 degrees
>
> Book says further 30 degrees.
>
> > Tighten bolts 11 to 65 lb/tf in sequence.
>
> Book says slacken and check-tighten to 65lbf.ft.
>
> > Dire warning - if one head gasket has been changed, all
> > 4 must be.
>
> I'd go along with that, but book also mentions the following:-
> 1. Liners should protrude from block by 0.01-0.06mm
> 2. Select correct gasket thickness, piston clearance to head should be
> 0.85-0.94mm.
> Piston Protrusion at TDC plus clearance = compressed gasket thickness.
> Part no's:- 1.42mm, 22030460B
> 1.52mm, 22032043A
> 1.62mm, 22030461B
> Whatever cylinder requires the thickest gasket, that is the thickness that
> is fitted to all cylinders.
> 3. Use only a hex socket, not bi-hex.
>
> > I wonder how often the above gets done properly, and
> > why the VM has a reputation for blowing head gaskets......
> >
>
> Book also goes on to give the following info for tappet clearances:-
>
> open adjust
> 1 7
> 8 2
> 5 3
> 4 6
> 7 1
> 2 8
> 3 5
> 6 4
>
> Not "rule of 9", unusual that.
>
> Also says they can be done as follows:-
> With no.1 rocking, adjust 4 and vice-versa,
> repeat for 2 and 3.
> Have fun.
> Badger.
>
>
>
>
The document I have is a suplement to the factory book,
issued later.

Richard
--
www.beamends-lrspares.co.uk sales@beamends-lrspares.co.uk
Running a business in a Microsoft free environment - it can be done
Powered by Risc-OS - you won't get a virus from us!!
Helping keep Land Rovers on and off the road to annoy the Lib Dems
 
"beamendsltd" <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote in message
news:a89de7344d%beamendsltd@btconnect.com...

> The document I have is a suplement to the factory book,
> issued later.
>
> Richard

Yeah bless them, I bought the lot, the supplements are actually bigger than
the origional manual.

Post'it notes galore...much simpler to find than a large oily thumb print

:)

Lee D


 
On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 08:58:46 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:

>VM are very big
>in marine engines, and used by Jeep.

Thats not much of a recommendation really.
The newest Grand Cherokee Jeeps have the excellent 2.7 5 cyl Merc
CRD. Only decent bit of the car really.
--
ColonelTupperware,
spouting bollocks on Usenet since 1997
Usenet FAQ at
http://www.its.caltech.edu/its/services/internetapps/news/news2.shtml
UPCE FAQ at http://upce.org.uk/ UKRM FAQ at http://www.ukrm.net/faq/

 

"Austin Shackles" <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote in message
news:2ufmv05jcg45l2p6ab0fc0mge8ml1pdqab@4ax.com...
>
> OK, anyone got a definitive answer?
>
> 2.4 VM turbodiesel, the bloke about to do work on my mate's one says that
> they use stretch bolts and thus the heads don't need re-torquing after a
> run-in period.
>
> true or false?
>

False. Others have described the torqueing sequence, which I have not had
the patience to check, but they omitted to mention that the six centre head
bolts of the set need retorqueing by a set angle at the first 12,000 miles
after the job. Why only the six centre bolts on this individual head unit
and why wait 12,000 miles I here you ask? I've no idea, any more than I know
the answer to the World, the Universe and Everything.

Huw


 

"Colonel Tupperware" <big.russ@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:b4jnv0pu08af83712mrs95tpgcikh8qjl3@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 08:58:46 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
> <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:
>
> >VM are very big
> >in marine engines, and used by Jeep.
>
> Thats not much of a recommendation really.
> The newest Grand Cherokee Jeeps have the excellent 2.7 5 cyl Merc
> CRD. Only decent bit of the car really.

whatever engine that is in the m class has a reputation of self destructing


 
On or around Sat, 29 Jan 2005 18:11:03 -0000, "Huw"
<hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:

>
>"Austin Shackles" <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote in message
>news:2ufmv05jcg45l2p6ab0fc0mge8ml1pdqab@4ax.com...
>>
>> OK, anyone got a definitive answer?
>>
>> 2.4 VM turbodiesel, the bloke about to do work on my mate's one says that
>> they use stretch bolts and thus the heads don't need re-torquing after a
>> run-in period.
>>
>> true or false?
>>
>
>False. Others have described the torqueing sequence, which I have not had
>the patience to check, but they omitted to mention that the six centre head
>bolts of the set need retorqueing by a set angle at the first 12,000 miles
>after the job. Why only the six centre bolts on this individual head unit
>and why wait 12,000 miles I here you ask? I've no idea, any more than I know
>the answer to the World, the Universe and Everything.

'specially as they're separate heads. although, thinking about it, the
in-between ones have to hold both heads, don't they, or there'd be more of
'em.
--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Soon shall thy arm, unconquered steam! afar Drag the slow barge, or
drive the rapid car; Or on wide-waving wings expanded bear the
flying chariot through the field of air.- Erasmus Darwin (1731-1802)
 
On or around Sat, 29 Jan 2005 08:42:26 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
<beamendsltd@btconnect.com> enlightened us thusly:

>In message <2ufmv05jcg45l2p6ab0fc0mge8ml1pdqab@4ax.com>
> Austin Shackles <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> OK, anyone got a definitive answer?
>>
>> 2.4 VM turbodiesel, the bloke about to do work on my mate's one says that
>> they use stretch bolts and thus the heads don't need re-torquing after a
>> run-in period.
>>
>> true or false?
>>
>
>True(ish)... here's the info (you'll love this....):
>
>Tightening Sequence

I'll pass it on. 's not me that's doing this one...

--
Austin Shackles. www.ddol-las.fsnet.co.uk my opinions are just that
Soon shall thy arm, unconquered steam! afar Drag the slow barge, or
drive the rapid car; Or on wide-waving wings expanded bear the
flying chariot through the field of air.- Erasmus Darwin (1731-1802)
 

"Angus McCoatup" <nospamta@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:36226iF4qigriU1@individual.net...
>
> "Colonel Tupperware" <big.russ@tesco.net> wrote in message
> news:b4jnv0pu08af83712mrs95tpgcikh8qjl3@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 29 Jan 2005 08:58:46 +0000 (UTC), beamendsltd
>> <beamendsltd@btconnect.com> wrote:
>>
>> >VM are very big
>> >in marine engines, and used by Jeep.
>>
>> Thats not much of a recommendation really.
>> The newest Grand Cherokee Jeeps have the excellent 2.7 5 cyl Merc
>> CRD. Only decent bit of the car really.
>
> whatever engine that is in the m class has a reputation of self
> destructing
>
>

Only the early petrol ones have a problem with their harmonic balancer,
which is part of the crank belt pulley assembly.
AFAIK the diesels are fairly reliable.

Huw


 

"Austin Shackles" <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote in message
news:hnnnv05k013ue2f7aitsbp3jr5dgdu5ajb@4ax.com...
> On or around Sat, 29 Jan 2005 18:11:03 -0000, "Huw"
> <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> enlightened us thusly:
>
>>
>>"Austin Shackles" <austinNOSPAM@ddol-las.net> wrote in message
>>news:2ufmv05jcg45l2p6ab0fc0mge8ml1pdqab@4ax.com...
>>>
>>> OK, anyone got a definitive answer?
>>>
>>> 2.4 VM turbodiesel, the bloke about to do work on my mate's one says
>>> that
>>> they use stretch bolts and thus the heads don't need re-torquing after a
>>> run-in period.
>>>
>>> true or false?
>>>
>>
>>False. Others have described the torqueing sequence, which I have not had
>>the patience to check, but they omitted to mention that the six centre
>>head
>>bolts of the set need retorqueing by a set angle at the first 12,000 miles
>>after the job. Why only the six centre bolts on this individual head unit
>>and why wait 12,000 miles I here you ask? I've no idea, any more than I
>>know
>>the answer to the World, the Universe and Everything.
>
> 'specially as they're separate heads. although, thinking about it, the
> in-between ones have to hold both heads, don't they, or there'd be more of
> 'em.


The centre six bolts impinge on all four heads as you say.

Huw


 
"Huw" <hedydd[nospam]@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3626d4F4rf35vU2@individual.net...
>> 'specially as they're separate heads. although, thinking about it, the
>> in-between ones have to hold both heads, don't they, or there'd be more
>> of
>> 'em.
>
>
> The centre six bolts impinge on all four heads as you say.

Allow me......

http://www.lrproject.com/rangie1/vm/

:eek:)

Did I mention I like taking photos?

Lee D


 
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