philvy

philvy

Well-Known Member
Anyone tried tinning his chassis with a tin stick and torch yet?

Too broke to get new chassis, and 33 years DO show, esp at the suspension hangers, front outriggers, rear outriggers, ...
just need a way to ensure rust doesnt grow where i welded, and the other option is epoxy glue.

Thought about using a butane torch and a tin stick as you would solder a wire?
Any ideas? Especially from the series corner? :D

Cheers,
Phil
 
philvy said:
Anyone tried tinning his chassis with a tin stick and torch yet?

Too broke to get new chassis, and 33 years DO show, esp at the suspension hangers, front outriggers, rear outriggers, ...
just need a way to ensure rust doesnt grow where i welded, and the other option is epoxy glue.

Thought about using a butane torch and a tin stick as you would solder a wire?
Any ideas? Especially from the series corner? :D

Cheers,
Phil
Click to expand...


First you need clean as in sand blasted clean, shiny clean not rust or foreign material. Then you have to us a flux which is a mild acid to act as a tinning agent for the tin/lead mixer to flow properly. most rust is in the non assessable areas of a chassis. why not do a good de scaling of the chassis and do a wax oly treatment, would get better results because it gets in all the tiny spots you cant reach. do it once a year before winter salt and sand season and should give you good service.

Trying to tin your chassis is a waste of time and money. Good idea but impractical
 
john winsemius said:
why not do a good de scaling of the chassis and do a wax oly treatment
Click to expand...

waxoyl is expensive and needs to be redone every year... short: i dont like it. I could use ep90 instead, put some gel additive in there and it still would be cheaper.

furthermore, as I do everything myself, I could spray epoxy inside. as runny as waxoyl (you can get it that far anyway) and holds on to the surface till dooms day.

But if I think about epoxy vs tin: one is gooey, needs to dry, is quite nice if you get it into your lungs (reg spraying) and you have to grind it off before welding later, and on tin you can weld and still put epoxy on later. And I think the structural integrity is better with tin than epoxy.
Tin is still a metal, and I'd prefer putting metal on metal, not plastic on metal (or plastic on metal on metal, but I dont have THAT much time...)

So it's down to epoxy vs tin.


AFAIK its:
1 Clean chassis
2 Grind/sand/blast local part i want to treat (if outside)
3 Spray/brush with acid, then good pressure fresh water wash (inside, too)
For TIN:
4 Spray tin primer
5 Heat tin primer till it flows
6 Wipe flux residue (problem from the inside...)
7 Apply tin
For EPOXY:
4 Spray epoxy
5 let dry

8/6 Paint

So, tin seems more involving, but epoxy is not the healthiest to work with, esp if it's in gas form. But then, so is the lead part of the tin sticks.

It's just: Is it worth the hassle to tin the parts I work on, or should i just bash on some epoxy? (Welding near the same seam will be a problem, as you wont get rid of it completely)


Ideas?








help
 
john winsemius said:
How are you going to do the inside of the tube rails?
Click to expand...

$(KGrHqUOKp!E24R8dt)kBN37Inwm7g~~0_12.JPG


Put tin in the can, heat tin with butane torch, spray

Crazy idea. Crazy enough it might even work. Someone told me it works... (NOT one of the voices in my head!)
 
what a load of b---cks ,waxoyl does work ,its cheap ,you cant wax rusty chassis and expect it to turn rust into fresh metal.its supposed to be applied on top of paint to keep water out ,but will if applied to rusty chassis slow rust down ,you couldnt apply paint,epoxy or not to rust and expect it to work ,if going to trouble of grit blasting good paint would be as good as anything apart from galv which apart from keeping steel away from water etc acts as sacrifical anode and oxidises itself rather than steel
 
jamesmartin said:
what a load of b---cks ,waxoyl does work ,its cheap ,you cant wax rusty chassis and expect it to turn rust into fresh metal.its supposed to be applied on top of paint to keep water out ,but will if applied to rusty chassis slow rust down ,you couldnt apply paint,epoxy or not to rust and expect it to work ,if going to trouble of grit blasting good paint would be as good as anything apart from galv which apart from keeping steel away from water etc acts as sacrifical anode and oxidises itself rather than steel
Click to expand...

I wasnt talking about epoxy paint, I was talking about epoxy like in glue, like in what boats are made of... If you put it on metal, and it gets a grip on the metal, it's better than any paint. It doesnt let neither air nor water, nor anything else through.
It has a life of more than ten years (or 30 years, as i use the thick stuff) and is repairable. If you put it on a glass fibre matt it has even a good structural integrity. It acts like a vibration damper too... One drawback: mixing metal with plastic
 
yes but bit would have to be spotlessly blasted otherwise it would act like powder coating and act as barrier to drying and accelerate oxidisation you couldnt blast inside anyhow and if going to that trouble galv would be better,if you look at any old boat etc sheathed in fibre glass youll find it rotting quicker than if painted
 
jamesmartin said:
yes but bit would have to be spotlessly blasted otherwise it would act like powder coating and act as barrier to drying and accelerate oxidisation you couldnt blast inside anyhow and if going to that trouble galv would be better,if you look at any old boat etc sheathed in fibre glass youll find it rotting quicker than if painted
Click to expand...

yep, but you dont coat wood in epoxy glue, as it has to breathe and move and stuff. Whereas metal has very little hydrogen and oxygen (free, as in not doped) and thus if there is a layer in between the metal surface and the epoxy surface, it reacts off and finished. If i trap 3 mol oxygen in between, I lose 2 mol Fe to them. But as no new oxygen enters: WIN :D

But yes, I'd need to have a very good contact between them. But then, I can use very runny epoxy for the first layer, and a thick one for the second...
 
needs to be new metal freshly blasted before it dulls as by then already started to oxidise ,they do use it on steel hulls but painted straight after blasting and is new steel but still not as good as galv
 
philvy said:
$%28KGrHqUOKp%21E24R8dt%29kBN37Inwm7g%7E%7E0_12.JPG


Put tin in the can, heat tin with butane torch, spray

Crazy idea. Crazy enough it might even work. Someone told me it works... (NOT one of the voices in my head!)
Click to expand...


Phil; that spray can will work for waxoly but not for tin. Tin has a melting point of 449.47 degrees F how are you going to hold the damn sprayer.
plus the oring seals in the trigger are rubber/poly will melt, the air will cool it down to solid the pick up tube will plug up the nozzle will plug up.

Now what is the cost of the tin/lead alloy and how many pounds will you need? 150/200 lbs @ say 10.00$# so 1500 for your tin plus the flux, plus your prep time. could just about get a galvinized chassis.
 
john winsemius said:
Phil; that spray can will work for waxoly but not for tin. Tin has a melting point of 449.47 degrees F how are you going to hold the damn sprayer.
plus the oring seals in the trigger are rubber/poly will melt, the air will cool it down to solid the pick up tube will plug up the nozzle will plug up.

Now what is the cost of the tin/lead alloy and how many pounds will you need? 150/200 lbs @ say 10.00$# so 1500 for your tin plus the flux, plus your prep time. could just about get a galvinized chassis.
Click to expand...

you cant get it in germany for 10 quid, more like 15 euroones....

yep, you're right. esp as the overspray with tin would be enourmous.



epoxy it is then. again. 10lb for about 25 quid, and that's enough for the whole chassis (or make it a double...)
but i had some practice, one of my footwells is treated that way already.
 
philvy said:
you cant get it in germany for 10 quid, more like 15 euroones....

yep, you're right. esp as the overspray with tin would be enourmous.



epoxy it is then. again. 10lb for about 25 quid, and that's enough for the whole chassis (or make it a double...)
but i had some practice, one of my footwells is treated that way already.
Click to expand...


Now Phil: epoxy will have a difficult time sticking ,think of the gell coat on fiber glass boats It's a sheet, not flexible it will pop off of your frame when it flex'es. Good idea but not practical or a doable or durable,solution or money well spent. If these were good ideas the auto makers would be doing it.
 
john winsemius said:
epoxy will have a difficult time sticking
Click to expand...
no, it wont. You will have a hard time UNsticking it if you will ever need it.

john winsemius said:
think of the gell coat on fiber glass boats It's a sheet, not flexible it will pop off of your frame when it flex'es
Click to expand...
erm, steel flexes min 10 times less before breaking stress compared to epoxy. And epoxy is not a sheet. For boats: You put the glass fibre mats in a form, and pour epoxy glue on it. The mats absorb the glue, and out comes the form you need. In our case, the form is the chassis, and we dont have mats, but that's no problem (experience)
I'll have to remember making some piccies tomorrow. I mended this hole with a glass mat and epoxy:
2nki0xj.jpg


john winsemius said:
If these were good ideas the auto makers would be doing it.
Click to expand...
No, they wouldnt. You dont want your cars last THAT long, it's quite heavy and more cost than you need. And they do use other things on the metal form the inside, so in some way they do...
 
epoxy or resin paints are already used but it needs to be fresh blasted steel,you didnt mend that hole with glass fibre did you ?
 
jamesmartin said:
epoxy or resin paints are already used but it needs to be fresh blasted steel,you didnt mend that hole with glass fibre did you ?
Click to expand...

Cleaned about half inch around hole, put glass fibre mat on the hole (plus half an inch), put epoxy on it. Painted over. Looks nice, not flush but nice. And is stronger than the metal surrounding it... :p
 
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