nobber
Well-Known Member
still looking - but this mite of interest....
Land Rovers and other off-road tyre sizes.
bookOn older Land Rovers (on the LWB/110 vehicles and many "off-roaders"), you'll often find tyres with a size like 750x16. This is another weird notation which defies logic. In this case, the 750 refers to a decimalised notation of an inch measurement. 750 = 7.50 inches, referring to the "normal inflated width" of the tyre - i.e. the external maximum width of the inflated, unladen tyre. (This is helpfully also not necessarily the width of the tread itself). The 16 still means 16 inch rims. Weird eh? The next question if you came to this page looking for info on Land Rover tyres will be "What size tyre is that the equivalent of in modern notation?". Simple. It has no aspect ratio and the original tyres would likely be cross-ply, so from what you've learned a couple of paragraphs above, assume 100% aspect ratio. Convert 7.5inches to be 190mm. That gives you a 190/100 R16 tyre. (You could use the calculator in the section on Classic / vintage / imperial crossply tyre sizes above to get the same result.)
Generally speaking, the Land Rover folks reckon a 265/65R16 is a good replacement for the "750", although the tread is slightly wider and might give some fouling problems on full lock. It's also 5% smaller in rolling radius so your speed will over-read by about 4mph at 70mph. If you can't fit those, then the other size that is recommended by Landrover anoraks is 235/86R16.
On Discoveries, Range Rovers, or the SWB Defenders/Series land rovers you'll find "205" tyres, denoting 205mm x 16 inches. The 205 type tyres can generally be replaced with 235/70R16 or 225/75R16. The 235 is a wider tyre and the general consensus in Land Rover circles is that it holds the road better when being pushed.
If you're really into this stuff, you ought to read Tom Sheppard's Off Roader Driving (ISBN 0953232425). It's a Land Rover publication first published in 1993 as "The Land Rover Experience". It's been steadily revised and you can now get the current edition from Amazon. I've even helpfully provided you with this link so you can go straight to it....
Land Rovers and other off-road tyre sizes.
bookOn older Land Rovers (on the LWB/110 vehicles and many "off-roaders"), you'll often find tyres with a size like 750x16. This is another weird notation which defies logic. In this case, the 750 refers to a decimalised notation of an inch measurement. 750 = 7.50 inches, referring to the "normal inflated width" of the tyre - i.e. the external maximum width of the inflated, unladen tyre. (This is helpfully also not necessarily the width of the tread itself). The 16 still means 16 inch rims. Weird eh? The next question if you came to this page looking for info on Land Rover tyres will be "What size tyre is that the equivalent of in modern notation?". Simple. It has no aspect ratio and the original tyres would likely be cross-ply, so from what you've learned a couple of paragraphs above, assume 100% aspect ratio. Convert 7.5inches to be 190mm. That gives you a 190/100 R16 tyre. (You could use the calculator in the section on Classic / vintage / imperial crossply tyre sizes above to get the same result.)
Generally speaking, the Land Rover folks reckon a 265/65R16 is a good replacement for the "750", although the tread is slightly wider and might give some fouling problems on full lock. It's also 5% smaller in rolling radius so your speed will over-read by about 4mph at 70mph. If you can't fit those, then the other size that is recommended by Landrover anoraks is 235/86R16.
On Discoveries, Range Rovers, or the SWB Defenders/Series land rovers you'll find "205" tyres, denoting 205mm x 16 inches. The 205 type tyres can generally be replaced with 235/70R16 or 225/75R16. The 235 is a wider tyre and the general consensus in Land Rover circles is that it holds the road better when being pushed.
If you're really into this stuff, you ought to read Tom Sheppard's Off Roader Driving (ISBN 0953232425). It's a Land Rover publication first published in 1993 as "The Land Rover Experience". It's been steadily revised and you can now get the current edition from Amazon. I've even helpfully provided you with this link so you can go straight to it....
J, JJ, K, JK, B, P and D : Tyre bead profiles / rim contour designations.
[beadprofile] No, my keyboard letters weren't stuck down when I typed this. The letter that typically sits between the rim width and diameter figures stamped on the wheel, and indicates the physical shape of the wheel where the tyre bead meets it. In the cross-section on the left you can see the area highlighted in red.
Like so many topics, the answer as to which letter represents which profile is a long and complicated one. Common wisdom has it that the letter represents the shape. ie. "J" means the bead profile is the shape of the letter "J". Not so, although "J" is the most common profile identifier. 4x4 vehicles often have "JJ" wheels. Jaguar vehicles (especially older ones) have "K" profile wheels. Some of the very old VW Beetles had "P" and "B" profile wheels.
Anyway the reason it is an "awkward topic to find definitive data on" is very apparent if you've ever looked at Standards Manual of the European Tyre and Rim Technical Organisation. It is extremely hard to follow! There are pages and pages (64 in total) on wheel contours and bead profiles alone, including dimensions for every type of wheel you can think of (and many you can't) with at least a dozen tabled dimensions for each. Casually looking through the manual is enough to send you to sleep. Looking at it with some concentration is enough to make your brain run out of your ears. To try to boil it all down for you, it seems that they divide up the rim into different sections and have various codes to describe the geometry of each area. For example, the "J" code makes up the "Rim Contour" and specifies rim contour dimensions in a single category of rims called "Code 10 to 26 on 5deg. Drop-Centre Rims". To give you some idea of just how complex / anal this process is, I've recreated one such diagram with Photoshop below to try to put you off the scent.
etrto diagram
From the tables present in this manual, the difference in dimensions between "J" and "B" rims is mainly due to the shape of the rim flange. This is the part in the above diagram defined by the R radius and B and Pmin parameters. Hence my somewhat simpler description : tyre bead profiles.
Note that in my example, the difference between "J" and "B" rims is small but not negligible. This area of rim-to-tire interface is very critical. Very small changes in a tyre's bead profile make large differences in mounting pressures and rim slip.
"A" and "D" contour designations come under the category of "Cycles, Motorcycles, and Scooters" but also show up in the "Industrial Vehicles and Lift Trucks" category. Naturally, the contours have completely different geometry for the same designation in two different categories.
The "S", "T", "V" and "W" contour designation codes fall into the "Commercial Vehicles, Flat Base Rims" category. The "E", "F", "G" and "H" codes fall into the "Commercial Vehicles, Semi-Drop Centre Rims" category. Are you beginning to see just how complex this all is?
I think the best thing for you, dear reader, is a general rule-of-thumb, and it is this : if your wheels are stamped 5J15 and you buy 5K15 tyres, rest assured they absolutely won't fit.
H, H2, FH, CH, EH and EH2 : Hump profiles.
More alphabet soup. So you might have just about understood the bit about bead profiles, but there's another design feature of wheel rims. The 'hump' is actually a bump put on the bead seat (for the bead) to prevent the tire from sliding off the rim while the vehicle is moving. As with rim contours, there are several different designations of hump design and configuration, depending on the number and shape of the humps. For the inquisitive reader, here's a table of the hump designations, and a diagram similar to the one above which displays in nauseating detail just what a hump really is. The eagle-eyed amongst you (or those paying attention) will notice that this diagram is an enlarged view of the area around Pmin in the other ETRO diagram above, because that's typically where the hump is.
Designation Bead Seat Contour Marking
Outside Inside
Hump Hump Normal H
Double Hump Hump Hump H2
Flat Hump Flat Hump Normal FH
Double Flat Hump Flat Hump Flat Hump FH2
Combination Hump Flat Hump Hump CH
Extended Hump Extended Hump Extended Hump EH2
Extended Hump 2+ Extended Hump 2+ Extended Hump 2+ EH2 +
etrto hump contours
If you're obsessive-compulsive and absolutely must know everything there is to know about bead profiles, humps and rim flanges, you can check out the ETRTO (European Tyre and Rim Technical Organisation website from where you can purchase their manuals and documents. Go nuts. Meanwhile, the rest of us will move on to the next topic.
[beadprofile] No, my keyboard letters weren't stuck down when I typed this. The letter that typically sits between the rim width and diameter figures stamped on the wheel, and indicates the physical shape of the wheel where the tyre bead meets it. In the cross-section on the left you can see the area highlighted in red.
Like so many topics, the answer as to which letter represents which profile is a long and complicated one. Common wisdom has it that the letter represents the shape. ie. "J" means the bead profile is the shape of the letter "J". Not so, although "J" is the most common profile identifier. 4x4 vehicles often have "JJ" wheels. Jaguar vehicles (especially older ones) have "K" profile wheels. Some of the very old VW Beetles had "P" and "B" profile wheels.
Anyway the reason it is an "awkward topic to find definitive data on" is very apparent if you've ever looked at Standards Manual of the European Tyre and Rim Technical Organisation. It is extremely hard to follow! There are pages and pages (64 in total) on wheel contours and bead profiles alone, including dimensions for every type of wheel you can think of (and many you can't) with at least a dozen tabled dimensions for each. Casually looking through the manual is enough to send you to sleep. Looking at it with some concentration is enough to make your brain run out of your ears. To try to boil it all down for you, it seems that they divide up the rim into different sections and have various codes to describe the geometry of each area. For example, the "J" code makes up the "Rim Contour" and specifies rim contour dimensions in a single category of rims called "Code 10 to 26 on 5deg. Drop-Centre Rims". To give you some idea of just how complex / anal this process is, I've recreated one such diagram with Photoshop below to try to put you off the scent.
etrto diagram
From the tables present in this manual, the difference in dimensions between "J" and "B" rims is mainly due to the shape of the rim flange. This is the part in the above diagram defined by the R radius and B and Pmin parameters. Hence my somewhat simpler description : tyre bead profiles.
Note that in my example, the difference between "J" and "B" rims is small but not negligible. This area of rim-to-tire interface is very critical. Very small changes in a tyre's bead profile make large differences in mounting pressures and rim slip.
"A" and "D" contour designations come under the category of "Cycles, Motorcycles, and Scooters" but also show up in the "Industrial Vehicles and Lift Trucks" category. Naturally, the contours have completely different geometry for the same designation in two different categories.
The "S", "T", "V" and "W" contour designation codes fall into the "Commercial Vehicles, Flat Base Rims" category. The "E", "F", "G" and "H" codes fall into the "Commercial Vehicles, Semi-Drop Centre Rims" category. Are you beginning to see just how complex this all is?
I think the best thing for you, dear reader, is a general rule-of-thumb, and it is this : if your wheels are stamped 5J15 and you buy 5K15 tyres, rest assured they absolutely won't fit.
H, H2, FH, CH, EH and EH2 : Hump profiles.
More alphabet soup. So you might have just about understood the bit about bead profiles, but there's another design feature of wheel rims. The 'hump' is actually a bump put on the bead seat (for the bead) to prevent the tire from sliding off the rim while the vehicle is moving. As with rim contours, there are several different designations of hump design and configuration, depending on the number and shape of the humps. For the inquisitive reader, here's a table of the hump designations, and a diagram similar to the one above which displays in nauseating detail just what a hump really is. The eagle-eyed amongst you (or those paying attention) will notice that this diagram is an enlarged view of the area around Pmin in the other ETRO diagram above, because that's typically where the hump is.
Designation Bead Seat Contour Marking
Outside Inside
Hump Hump Normal H
Double Hump Hump Hump H2
Flat Hump Flat Hump Normal FH
Double Flat Hump Flat Hump Flat Hump FH2
Combination Hump Flat Hump Hump CH
Extended Hump Extended Hump Extended Hump EH2
Extended Hump 2+ Extended Hump 2+ Extended Hump 2+ EH2 +
etrto hump contours
If you're obsessive-compulsive and absolutely must know everything there is to know about bead profiles, humps and rim flanges, you can check out the ETRTO (European Tyre and Rim Technical Organisation website from where you can purchase their manuals and documents. Go nuts. Meanwhile, the rest of us will move on to the next topic.
Griffdowg
New Member
so the the 1st post was effectively correct? ie. mine! and we didnt have to go through all this bollox about load capacity, rostyle, ffs wheels etc etc?
I wud think it would be advisable to know wot size they were fust.
Boxer
Active Member
I might be saying something thats already been said in the long rambling posts I don't have the patience to read them , sorry. Disco Steels on a 110 look great (I painted mine black) they are rated OK, they take a tubeless tyre and they are wide enough to take 265/75R16s which approximate to a 750R16 in diameter. you do need to adjust the stops but not by too much.
JimAttrill
New Member
My 1995 110 came with wheels marked 5.50F x 16 x 33 (NRC7578) I always reckoned the F meant that the rim was supposed to have tubed tyres 7.50x16 as fitted when new, though many people fit 235/85R16s to them. I replaced them with Wolf rims (ANR4583) which are 6.5J x 16 x 20.6, and I always thought the J meant tubeless tyres can be fitted. In fact, you can fit 'tubed type' tyres to the Wolf rims without tubes and they do not lose air.
The extra complication is that last number. I think it is the offset, and is possibly in mm just to make life difficult. Though how this is measured I have no idea, and don't care very much to be honest.
The extra complication is that last number. I think it is the offset, and is possibly in mm just to make life difficult. Though how this is measured I have no idea, and don't care very much to be honest.
