S

Spiderman

Guest
The air conditioning on my 1989 Chevy S10 Blazer just stopped working. I can
hear the compressor kick in but the air blows out warm. I'm thinking of
adding in Freeze 12 coolant since it's closer to R12 and less work to
retrofit than R134. Has anyone tried this?


 
On Tue, 25 May 2004 20:45:56 -0400, "Spiderman"
<spiderman@spiderman.com> wrote:

>The air conditioning on my 1989 Chevy S10 Blazer just stopped working. I can
>hear the compressor kick in but the air blows out warm. I'm thinking of
>adding in Freeze 12 coolant since it's closer to R12 and less work to
>retrofit than R134. Has anyone tried this?
>
You should not mix refrigerants. If you want to change types the
system needs to be evacuated and then recharged with the correct
amount of new refrigerant.

In this case if the compressor still clicks on but you get no cooling
it could very easily be any number of problems. I would have a pro
check out the system and tell you whats wrong even if you decide not
to have them fix it.

You can kill your compressor pretty easy and a new one is going to
cost you around $450 just for the part. Better to have a good
diagnosis before you try anything.

Steve B.
 

"Steve B." <this is not my real address@.com> wrote in message
news:h2t7b05nau0vjfve0ukfgpvhfl16oknlqo@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 25 May 2004 20:45:56 -0400, "Spiderman"
> <spiderman@spiderman.com> wrote:
>
> >The air conditioning on my 1989 Chevy S10 Blazer just stopped working. I
can
> >hear the compressor kick in but the air blows out warm. I'm thinking of
> >adding in Freeze 12 coolant since it's closer to R12 and less work to
> >retrofit than R134. Has anyone tried this?
> >
> You should not mix refrigerants. If you want to change types the
> system needs to be evacuated and then recharged with the correct
> amount of new refrigerant.
>
> In this case if the compressor still clicks on but you get no cooling
> it could very easily be any number of problems. I would have a pro
> check out the system and tell you whats wrong even if you decide not
> to have them fix it.
>
> You can kill your compressor pretty easy and a new one is going to
> cost you around $450 just for the part. Better to have a good
> diagnosis before you try anything.
>
> Steve B.

New compressors are half that amount, remans even less.

Doc



 
On Tue, 25 May 2004, "Doc" wrote:

> > You can kill your compressor pretty easy and a new one is going to
> > cost you around $450 just for the part. Better to have a good
> > diagnosis before you try anything.

> New compressors are half that amount

Wow, you know the prices for every compressor for every application, eh?
You should work in a parts store.

> remans even less.

Sure, if you don't mind replacing a compressor every 18 months.

DS
 
On Tue, 25 May 2004, Spiderman wrote:

> The air conditioning on my 1989 Chevy S10 Blazer just stopped working. I
> can hear the compressor kick in but the air blows out warm. I'm thinking
> of adding in Freeze 12 coolant since it's closer to R12 and less work to
> retrofit than R134. Has anyone tried this?

This is not an appropriate or legal thing to do. Mixing refrigerants,
aside from being illegal, is an excellent way to cause extensive and
expensive damage to your system, and service shops charge extra to service
systems that have been contaminated with mixed and/or nonstandard
refrigerants. Standard refrigerants are R12 and R134a, anything else is
nonstandard. Freeze-12 is NOT "closer to R12" chemically, not at all.

Find and fix the problem - likely a bad compressor shaft seal on that
model.

DS
 
On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:34:32 -0400, "\"Doc\"" <noway@nope.com> wrote:

>
>New compressors are half that amount, remans even less.
>
>Doc


Remans are crap in general. The compressor in his vehicle does not
rebuild well at all... Generally one of these rebuilt last one season
if you are lucky.

The factory part was over $400 when I bought one two years ago.
Prices could be a little higher or lower but I would expect it to
still be in the same range.

Steve B.
 
Hey Doc!
These guys don't know anything about wholesale, and still frequent the
dealers and the corner parts store. Now about we sell them a seminar on how
to make money and save the customer half on the part. While still making
money!

Ciao!

Refinish King


""Doc"" <noway@nope.com> wrote in message
news:VsednbAyAKctnCndRVn-ug@adelphia.com...
>
> "Steve B." <this is not my real address@.com> wrote in message
> news:h2t7b05nau0vjfve0ukfgpvhfl16oknlqo@4ax.com...
> > On Tue, 25 May 2004 20:45:56 -0400, "Spiderman"
> > <spiderman@spiderman.com> wrote:
> >
> > >The air conditioning on my 1989 Chevy S10 Blazer just stopped working.
I
> can
> > >hear the compressor kick in but the air blows out warm. I'm thinking of
> > >adding in Freeze 12 coolant since it's closer to R12 and less work to
> > >retrofit than R134. Has anyone tried this?
> > >
> > You should not mix refrigerants. If you want to change types the
> > system needs to be evacuated and then recharged with the correct
> > amount of new refrigerant.
> >
> > In this case if the compressor still clicks on but you get no cooling
> > it could very easily be any number of problems. I would have a pro
> > check out the system and tell you whats wrong even if you decide not
> > to have them fix it.
> >
> > You can kill your compressor pretty easy and a new one is going to
> > cost you around $450 just for the part. Better to have a good
> > diagnosis before you try anything.
> >
> > Steve B.
>
> New compressors are half that amount, remans even less.
>
> Doc
>
>
>



 

"Steve B." <this is not my real address@.com> wrote in message
news:5e18b09c7ocgimhurtgano233mca4ao3hf@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 25 May 2004 22:34:32 -0400, "\"Doc\"" <noway@nope.com> wrote:
>
> >
> >New compressors are half that amount, remans even less.
> >
> >Doc
>
>
> Remans are crap in general. The compressor in his vehicle does not
> rebuild well at all... Generally one of these rebuilt last one season
> if you are lucky.
>
> The factory part was over $400 when I bought one two years ago.
> Prices could be a little higher or lower but I would expect it to
> still be in the same range.
>

Hmm - I don't know the said compressor but if it's that DA-6 job that
GM used, I have a rebuilt one in my 84 Celebrity that I installed, and
it has lasted several seasons.

I think the rebuilds get a bad rap because since they are cheap, the
people buying them are mostly looking for a quick and fast fix to
their A/C system. So instead of doing the job right - meaning also
replacing the accumulator, expansion orifice, and flushing all tubing
in the system out, they just slap in a reman compressor. The thing
then blows up a year later after getting ruined by contaminants left
in the system.

Ted


 
On Tue, 25 May 2004 20:45:56 -0400, "Spiderman" <spiderman@spiderman.com> wrote:

||The air conditioning on my 1989 Chevy S10 Blazer just stopped working. I can
||hear the compressor kick in but the air blows out warm. I'm thinking of
||adding in Freeze 12 coolant since it's closer to R12 and less work to
||retrofit than R134. Has anyone tried this?

I'm surprised the compressor would kick in if it's low on refrigerant. It should
have a low pressure switch on the accumulator that cuts the clutch circuit if
the pressure drops below a certain point. So you may have another problem.
Maybe a duct mixer door is not opening.
But if you do need to add refrigerant, stay with R12. You can still buy it if
you watch the clasifieds. Even at $30/pound it's cheaper and colder than
anything you could change to, all things considered.
Texas Parts Guy
 

"Spiderman" <spiderman@spiderman.com> wrote in message
news:0u-dnRC4JdledS7dRVn_iw@comcast.com...
> The air conditioning on my 1989 Chevy S10 Blazer just stopped working. I
can
> hear the compressor kick in but the air blows out warm. I'm thinking of
> adding in Freeze 12 coolant since it's closer to R12 and less work to
> retrofit than R134. Has anyone tried this?
>

NO! Don't waste your time.

Change to r134.

Freeze 12 is not compatable with r12! Freeze 12 is not compatable with
anything other than mineral oil! Freeze 12 can be used with mineral oil,
ester oil, or a mixture.

To change to Freeze 12 you have to vacumn your system to remove all the r12,
then add 3 ozs of oil, (preferablely ester) before you add the Freeze 12. If
you do change to Freeze 12 then you are stuck to doing all the work on your
AC yourself, as AC shops are not going to buy a complete set of equipment
for use with Freeze 12. An AC shop has to have a complete set of equipment
for r12 and r134 now. Why buy a set for limited use with Freeze 12?

Just convert to r134 its is cheaper, and easier to have a working system.

--
Diamond Jim
The Old Devildog


 

> NO! Don't waste your time.
>
> Change to r134.
>
> Freeze 12 is not compatable with r12! Freeze 12 is not compatable with
> anything other than mineral oil! Freeze 12 can be used with mineral oil,
> ester oil, or a mixture.
>
> To change to Freeze 12 you have to vacumn your system to remove all the
r12,
> then add 3 ozs of oil, (preferablely ester) before you add the Freeze 12.
If
> you do change to Freeze 12 then you are stuck to doing all the work on
your
> AC yourself, as AC shops are not going to buy a complete set of equipment
> for use with Freeze 12. An AC shop has to have a complete set of equipment
> for r12 and r134 now. Why buy a set for limited use with Freeze 12?
>
> Just convert to r134 its is cheaper, and easier to have a working system.
>
> --
> Diamond Jim
> The Old Devildog
>

No! Don't waste your time!

Just get your R12 system fixed. It was built for it and it's still
available.


 
Bruce Chang wrote:

>>NO! Don't waste your time.
>>
>>Change to r134.
>>
>>Freeze 12 is not compatable with r12! Freeze 12 is not compatable with
>>anything other than mineral oil! Freeze 12 can be used with mineral oil,
>>ester oil, or a mixture.
>>
>>To change to Freeze 12 you have to vacumn your system to remove all the
>
> r12,
>
>>then add 3 ozs of oil, (preferablely ester) before you add the Freeze 12.
>
> If
>
>>you do change to Freeze 12 then you are stuck to doing all the work on
>
> your
>
>>AC yourself, as AC shops are not going to buy a complete set of equipment
>>for use with Freeze 12. An AC shop has to have a complete set of equipment
>>for r12 and r134 now. Why buy a set for limited use with Freeze 12?
>>
>>Just convert to r134 its is cheaper, and easier to have a working system.
>>
>>--
>>Diamond Jim
>>The Old Devildog
>>
>
>
> No! Don't waste your time!
>
> Just get your R12 system fixed. It was built for it and it's still
> available.
>
>
It is expensive as hell. Best bet is an R134 conversion.
 
Diamond Jim wrote:

> To change to Freeze 12 you have to vacumn your system to remove all the r12,
> then add 3 ozs of oil, (preferablely ester) before you add the Freeze 12.

Oh? Why a magic "3 ounces?" What if the system still has a full charge
of mineral oil- you'll be over-full. What if it has lost all its mineral
oil for some reason? You'll be running dry.

"Formula" retrofits like that are a quick way to disaster. Any retrofit
should begin with "disassemble and FLUSH they system...." and end with
"fill with the factory specified quantity of oil...." of whichever type
is most compatible with the chosen refrigerant.


 
On Wed, 26 May 2004 14:26:56 GMT, "Diamond Jim" <jbanks2@ec.rr.com> wrote:

||
||"Spiderman" <spiderman@spiderman.com> wrote in message
||news:0u-dnRC4JdledS7dRVn_iw@comcast.com...
||> The air conditioning on my 1989 Chevy S10 Blazer just stopped working. I
||can
||> hear the compressor kick in but the air blows out warm. I'm thinking of
||> adding in Freeze 12 coolant since it's closer to R12 and less work to
||> retrofit than R134. Has anyone tried this?
||>
||
||NO! Don't waste your time.
||
||Change to r134.
||
||Freeze 12 is not compatable with r12! Freeze 12 is not compatable with
||anything other than mineral oil! Freeze 12 can be used with mineral oil,
||ester oil, or a mixture.
||
||To change to Freeze 12 you have to vacumn your system to remove all the r12,
||then add 3 ozs of oil, (preferablely ester) before you add the Freeze 12. If
||you do change to Freeze 12 then you are stuck to doing all the work on your
||AC yourself, as AC shops are not going to buy a complete set of equipment
||for use with Freeze 12. An AC shop has to have a complete set of equipment
||for r12 and r134 now. Why buy a set for limited use with Freeze 12?

I haven't used it myself, but I think it's noteworthy that my company sold
31,000 12-oz cans of Freeze-12, and another 50 30# cylinders over the last 18
months. SOMEbody out there must be doing OK with it.
For what it's worth.
Texas Parts Guy
 

"Steve" <no@spam.thanks> wrote in message
news:2eWdnZNAUeO4IindRVn-jw@texas.net...
> Diamond Jim wrote:
>
> > To change to Freeze 12 you have to vacumn your system to remove all the
r12,
> > then add 3 ozs of oil, (preferablely ester) before you add the Freeze
12.
>
> Oh? Why a magic "3 ounces?" What if the system still has a full charge
> of mineral oil- you'll be over-full. What if it has lost all its mineral
> oil for some reason? You'll be running dry.
>
> "Formula" retrofits like that are a quick way to disaster. Any retrofit
> should begin with "disassemble and FLUSH they system...." and end with
> "fill with the factory specified quantity of oil...." of whichever type
> is most compatible with the chosen refrigerant.
>

Because you are going to loose just about three ounces when you drain and
vacumn your system. THAT'S WHY! Even if you add some extra oil it is not
going to cause a disaster.

If it doesn't have any oil in the system then it doesn't have any freon in
the system either. Q.E.D

Why don't you go bother somebody else, with all your crap. All you want to
do is snipe, post a real e-mail address if you are serious, and stand behind
your post. Otherwise your just a troll, looking to cause trouble.


 

"Rex B" <NOSPAMrex@REMOVEtxol.net> wrote in message
news:40b4c249.184389997@news.txol.net...
> On Wed, 26 May 2004 14:26:56 GMT, "Diamond Jim" <jbanks2@ec.rr.com> wrote:
>
> ||
> ||"Spiderman" <spiderman@spiderman.com> wrote in message
> ||news:0u-dnRC4JdledS7dRVn_iw@comcast.com...
> ||> The air conditioning on my 1989 Chevy S10 Blazer just stopped working.
I
> ||can
> ||> hear the compressor kick in but the air blows out warm. I'm thinking
of
> ||> adding in Freeze 12 coolant since it's closer to R12 and less work to
> ||> retrofit than R134. Has anyone tried this?
> ||>
> ||
> ||NO! Don't waste your time.
> ||
> ||Change to r134.
> ||
> ||Freeze 12 is not compatable with r12! Freeze 12 is not compatable with
> ||anything other than mineral oil! Freeze 12 can be used with mineral oil,
> ||ester oil, or a mixture.
> ||
> ||To change to Freeze 12 you have to vacumn your system to remove all the
r12,
> ||then add 3 ozs of oil, (preferablely ester) before you add the Freeze
12. If
> ||you do change to Freeze 12 then you are stuck to doing all the work on
your
> ||AC yourself, as AC shops are not going to buy a complete set of
equipment
> ||for use with Freeze 12. An AC shop has to have a complete set of
equipment
> ||for r12 and r134 now. Why buy a set for limited use with Freeze 12?
>
> I haven't used it myself, but I think it's noteworthy that my company sold
> 31,000 12-oz cans of Freeze-12, and another 50 30# cylinders over the last
18
> months. SOMEbody out there must be doing OK with it.
> For what it's worth.
> Texas Parts Guy

There is absolutely nothing wrong with R12. Banning it in the US was
strictly a political move by Clinton and his administration to make the tree
huggers happy and to get concessions on other matters at the Keyoto World
Meeting. R12 is still used (legally) in many parts (so called third world
countries) of the world. Mexico uses it, and r134 is hard to find in Mexico.
All the BS about the r12 destroying the ozone layer was also a bunch of BS.
When Mount Pentatubo (spelling ?) erupted in the Philippines (near the old
Clark AFB) more chlorine was put into the atmosphere than the total amount
of chlorine ever used in making all the different types of freon. And
chlorine which is released when freon brakes down is what destroys ozone.
But every lighting bolt (among other things) in the world produces ozone. A
lot of the whacko theories from the 70's and 80's have proven to be BS.
Ozone depletion, nuclear winter, to name two. Global warming? or global
cooling? is still being debated with no proof on either side yet, just the
doomsday sound bytes from the TV.


 
On Wed, 26 May 2004, Diamond Jim wrote:

> There is absolutely nothing wrong with R12. Banning it in the US was
> strictly a political move by Clinton and his administration to make the
> tree huggers happy and to get concessions on other matters at the Keyoto
> World Meeting.

Most of the world disagrees with you.

> Mexico uses it, and r134 is hard to find in Mexico.

Incorrect. '94-up cars in Mexico use R134a, by law. Same as in the US and
Canada.

> All the BS about the r12 destroying the ozone layer was also a bunch of
> BS.

According to you. Your scientific credentials are...?

> When Mount Pentatubo (spelling ?)

Pinatubo.

> erupted in the
> Philippines (near the old Clark AFB) more chlorine was put into the
> atmosphere than the total amount of chlorine ever used in making all the
> different types of freon.

Except that Chlorine *per se* isn't the problem. Chlorofluorocarbons are.
If you think you can just latch onto bits and parts of molecules to prove
your point, I surely hope you never drink water or swim near sources of
ignition...why, with all that Hydrogen around, you'd go up in a giant
fireball!

> But every lighting bolt (among other things) in the world produces
> ozone.

Yes. Ozone down here at ground level where it doesn't shield us from the
sun's UV, not up in the stratosphere where it does.

> A lot of the whacko theories from
> the 70's and 80's have proven to be BS.

Again, according to you. You can't even spell or form a coherent sentence,
yet you expect to be believed simply on say-so?

> Ozone depletion

Which has not been "proven to be BS".

> nuclear winter

OK, I'll bite: Please describe the thermonuclear war that happened and
"proved nuclear winter to be BS". Include such details as who first fired
upon whom, which countries were involved, etc.

Just because you lack the brain to understand something does not make it
"BS".

-Stern
 
On Wed, 26 May 2004, Diamond Jim wrote:

> > "Formula" retrofits like that are a quick way to disaster. Any
> > retrofit should begin with "disassemble and FLUSH they system...." and
> > end with "fill with the factory specified quantity of oil...." of
> > whichever type is most compatible with the chosen refrigerant.

> Because you are going to loose just about three ounces when you drain
> and vacumn your system. THAT'S WHY!

And if you're starting with no oil and the system requires 5 ounces,
you'll be 2 ounces short. And if you're starting with 7 ounces and the
system requires 5 ounces, you'll be 2 ounces over. Your "Just add 3
ounces" idea is pure stupidity.

> If it doesn't have any oil in the system then it doesn't have any freon in
> the system either.

False. Systems low on oil and full of refrigerant are a reality.

> Q.E.D

Do you know what this means? I don't think that you do, because you
haven't used it correctly.

-Stern
 

"Daniel J. Stern" <dastern@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:pine.GSO.4.58.0405252243200.14211@alumni.engin.umich.edu...
> On Tue, 25 May 2004, "Doc" wrote:
>
> Wow, you know the prices for every compressor for every application, eh?
> You should work in a parts store.
>
>
> Sure, if you don't mind replacing a compressor every 18 months.
>
> DS

Asshole,

Compressor model LT-R4

New, this compressor retails for $199.88 w/$10 core; remans are $108.88.
Yes, some compressors cost well over $400 new; this one doesn't. Next time
try to be more informed before you start with the smartass remarks.

Doc


 
On Wed, 26 May 2004, "Doc" wrote:

> Compressor model LT-R4
> New, this compressor retails for $199.88 w/$10 core

See, the difference is that when I say "New", I mean genuine-new, not the
new Chinese knockoff crapola you can buy from Pep Boys type places.

DS
 
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