weld and glue front pulley crank (long Post)

Decided cam belt due, purchased belt, two gaskets ect, other than getting little hotter on loooong hill climbs my 93 200 dti runs perfect and I mean perfect. Took rad out to check for blockage and makes cam belt change easier. Rad 'fins' were corroded on the 'fan side' of rad? Never used a drop of water sent to recondioners....now to the cam belt...out comes the big breaker bar placed on pulley and the bolt turned under the weight of the bar!!!!
The bolt was very loose, took out bolt tugged at crank pulley no chance it appeared to be glued on. Well the end result is I got the pulley off (3 hours) the wooruff key was a line of weld that someone had decided to use to cover the damage by loose pulley bolt ect. The timing belt gear had a chip in the keyway at the front and the key next to this was smashed in bits, the rearmost key had also started to fail resulting in the gear moving about on the crank. Words like 'oh blast deary me were heard from quite a distance!! Any ideas???

regards

Dave

any ideas about what???
how to install nero 7 premium reloaded perhaps?

sory slob, will rephrase, 'suggestions' perhaps?
regards
Dave

you've got two choices..no make that lots.
crank out and try and find someone to repair it.
crank out new one in
engine out replacment in
bodge it back in and carry on as you sed it wur fine till you took it apart
bodge it and get shot of it quickish
sell it as is

Thought that would be the answer, I just wondered if anyone had come across this before, if so which route did they take? The rest of the car/engine is fine, starts first touch of the key even when in the UK last year showing it low temperatures that its never seen before. Drives great with no clunks/knocks ect, off course it is not worth a lot of money but then its perfect for what I use it for and anything newer would be a waste of money. Catch 22, its too old to throw money at it, its in too good a condition not to. There are not a lot of spares about over here so will think about the bodge and hang on while looking for another engine. Anyone know if the 200 dti Spain spec differs to UK spec? Also my radiator has an engine oil cooler in one end off it, is this the same for UK models?

regards
Dave

OK an update, I will replace all parts that appear damaged except the cranshaft, as the weld that was placed towards the 'snout' of the crank I think it was put there to provide a false woodruff key that was damaged during the original episode that brought about the bodge. The repair should be straightforward which leads me to believe it was done originaly not to save money but due to parts availability which can be a little difficult here in Spain. Anyway, when the parts arrive I will give an update on progress, incidently did anyone find out if my engine oil cooler in the radiator is normal or just a continental mod?

regards
Dave

Some one has had this same problem recently dunno wot they did to sort it Try doing a search.

I think there may be another way .....

The Woodruff key is shaped to fit into the little slot milled out of the nose of the crankshaft by a rotating wheel cutter.

The slot in the pulley is simply a slot.

I think you COULD file a SLOT in the crankshaft and fit a plain steel key instead of a woodruff key. It would need some care, and take some time, but when needs must, the devil drives.

Remember, the key locates TWO wheels, the bottom pulley for the timing belt (it is critical this is keyed accurately) and the crankshaft pulley. When both are fitted, each covers HALF of the woodruff key, trapping it in place.

You would need to make provision that the key could not come out. Mr Woodruff's design was clever because once assembled, the key is trapped for sure.

CharlesY

Dave 2000 said:

incidently did anyone find out if my engine oil cooler in the radiator is normal or just a continental mod?

regards
Dave

Click to expand...

Yep! Standard !

Thanks for the replies, it appears that there are only 2 keyways in the crank, the rearmost is covered completley by the cam drive gear and the second as per you reply is half in the cam drive and half in the crank pulley. As so much grinding and welding had been going on I was not sure if another keyway had been filled/covered ect. The slot on the cam drive had been damaged as had the front most keyway, I am thinking that with both new pulleys the key should be trapped. my only concern was there was damage to the crank area where the crank pulley sits, there is some grinding ect so was worried about 'running out ect', anyway the parts are here and I will start reasembling this evening, I will also try for some pics, thanks for advice and will uodate asap.

regards
Dave

Dave,

It sounds to me as if you are going "to get away" with this!

The keyways serve mainly to establish the TIMING of the crank - cam - pump. These three are in fairly critical relationships, but a degree or two either way won't be a disaster.

Once it is all assembled, what really holds it all from slipping out of setting is that bloody big bolt holding the crankshaft pulley on. The pulley presses inwards on the sprocket, and that is leaning on the shoulder of the crankshaft. If that bloody big bolt is TIGHT, and stays tight, not a lot will go amiss.

If it was mine .... I would carefully try-fit the bits, especially the cambelt sprocket and its key. Make as sure as you can that this sprocket and key fits neatly, and reasonably strongly. Now do whatever it takes to secure the pulley as well, and once you are sure it is all going to line up, and looks OK, set the belt timing, finish the job and TIGHTEN the crankshaft pulley bolt REALLY tight as called for. My bet is lots of Landy owners don't get their bolts as tight as they should. I suggest you do NOT use loctite or threadlock on it - YOU may be the next person trying to take it apart! I suggest you make sure the threads of the big bolt are lightly oiled, which will make it easier to tighten, and will make it effectively tighter than doing it up "dry".

The bodge you are about to do isn't a problem. A Bodge doesn't ever need to be a problem.
What would be a problem would be if the bodge failed and allowed the cambelt sprocket to slip, and the timing went down the pan. By opening it up when you did, you discovered that the cambelt sprocket had been chattering at the key, and would soon have bashed it to bits ---- and slipped because the bolt wasn't tight --- and that would have been end of engine I think.

If your bodge is good enough, that won't happen, so job done, well done, and off you go!

Just get that bolt TIGHT! Check it once in a while too.

CharlesY

Update continued, ground down the made up (by weld) woodruff key and trial fitted the new woodruff keys, timing gear and pulley. The timing gear pulley is a good tight fit with no play or movement, the crank pulley does rock a little side to side probably a few thou but should be held square by contact with timing gear, new washer and bolt. So went for the reaseembly and all went well. I decided to remove the 'dry' threadlok from the new crank bolt as I feel this may effect the final torque figure and went for a good quality 'wet' threadlok. I have started her up and the engine runs and sounds fine but have yet to road test ect. I have a 200 kilometre run this weekend so that will also confirm that the 'heating up' that has been occuring on hills hasbeen sorted, fingers crossed and thanks for all replies

regards

Dave

Good Luck for your trip!

I suggest you take with you the big socket that fits the crankshaft pulley bolt.

You might want to check it is staying tight.

Heave on handbrake tight.
Engage 4th gear (direct I think)
Tighten pulley bolt mega tight.

Pray.

Let us know how you get on.

CharlesY

Thanks for that, car is back on the road and seems to be running fine .

Checked the rising temp on long hills and no probs whatsoever............something worth noting is that I have never heard the viscous fan when the engine was hot even when revving, I had replaced the thermostat as you do and was going to replace viscous coupling but rad had to come out for the aforementioned crank disaster ect. The rad tubes inside were quite clean so the problem was the matrix fins which had corroded and collapsed on each other, this prevented the warm/hot air flow on to the viscous unit and stopped it working thus adding to the heating problem. I had the rad reconditioned whilst out and now I can hear the fan and its quite bloody noisey so perhaps a Kenlowe?

Now the long run at the weekend so finger crossed, I will post pics as soon as poss, anybody know of any limit to how many, there are about 8?

regards
Dave

Hi all sorry the follow up has been a bit slow but here it is. The engine went back together ok and started first time. No knocks or rattles and I have now completed 500+ kilometres. Rechecked the crank bolt and it does not appear to have moved.

I have attched some pics of the damged parts (not brill but will suffice)was I lucky or what, check out the woodruff keys? My only concern was the front most keyway damage in the crank however, the new cam gear was tight with the rear most key and held the second key in place so I drive with a mental crossing of fingers.

Thanks for help and advice to all, now to start my knew post, 'why did I get stuck?'