Wastegate actuator TD5 Defender

Can l alter the wastegate actuator rod length on my 2005 Defender TD5 to increase performance a little, without remapping?
I've looked online and some say you can, some say you can't!
Of those that say you can, the consensus seems to be reduce the length of the rod from 13 threads showing, to 11/12.
Can anybody confirm that this is/is not possible?

as long as boost pressure stays within the ecu limits, a seized waste gate cause the engine to go in to limp mode when boost becomes to great

you can shorten the wastegate rod untill max 9 threads left(or even more) without other tuning according to the fuel map variant and other elements which can affect real boost in the inlet and MAP reading... if you want the max boost you can get shorten it more, go for a ride and if it cuts out by overboost shorten it step by step untill it it doesnt go to limp mode or feel wastegate creep... mine is with 9 threads left now without probs but it's remapped D2 so the management is a bit different

IMO instead of messing with the rod which can favorise creep get one of these cos it's cheap but good http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/UNIVERSAL-MANUAL-BOOST-CONTROLLER-BALL-AND-SPRING-VALVE-/220834255382 and play with it untill you reach the best setup

I believe the Discovery TD5 has a different method of controlling the wastegate.
As in one is electronic, the other manual. I searched but could not find a definitive answer about the Defender setup.

Has anybody actually tried it, as in shortening the wastegate rod on a Defender without any other tuning, and did it improve?

I read that it doesn't give more power, but the turbo comes in sooner.

I've made all kind of tests with my own car and even bypassed the electronic modulator then it's like a defender, the MAP is the same for both and the management cuts out above 245 MAP reading though the factory setting of the gareth turbo wastegate is for 1.2 bar which will result in around 220 MAP reading dependent on ambient pressure , as i said you can shorten the rod without fear and you'll get better throttle response and higher boost but if you shortened it too much you'll have to go back untill below the overboost limit... anyway it's not the best method, for defender the best cheap variant would be that manual controller which i linked to you and let the rod alone cos being spring loaded it will have a non linear action... i wouldn't have told you to do something i didnt check myself

So l can shorten it by how much, one thread, two?
If it makes the engine perform a bit better it would be worth doing as it costs nothing.

read again what i wrote to you... if your's is standard without any remap IMO you can go untill 9 threads left out...then if it will overboost go back 1 by 1 untill it doesnt but it's quite unlikely to need that

Yours is a remapped Discovery and l was not sure if it would be the same.

Mine is not remapped and the Defender uses a manual rather than electronic system to control the wastegate.

I'll try it one turn at a time and see what happens, if it's not going to damage anything.

When i said i made several tests i really meant it ... i have 3 ECMs, one is completely standard and checked with that too and without modulator involved... i know exactly how the wastegate works on Td5 no matter if it's D2 or Defender and without remap and boost box the worst you can do by shortening the rod is to make the overboost protection to kick in which doesnt hurt the engine

Thanks l will give it a try then and see what improvements l get.

I shortened the rod by one thread and it does seem a little better, a bit more acceleration and a bit better accelerating from 50-60mph in fifth gear.
I'll leave it like that for a week or so then try shortening the rod by one more thread (two in total, leaving 10/11 showing depending if you count the peaks or troughs) and then report back again.

[GALLERY=] [/GALLERY]

lightning said:

I shortened the rod by one thread and it does seem a little better, a bit more acceleration and a bit better accelerating from 50-60mph in fifth gear.
I'll leave it like that for a week or so then try shortening the rod by one more thread (two in total, leaving 10/11 showing depending if you count the peaks or troughs) and then report back again.

Click to expand...

I've done this on my 2001 15p engine Defender. I read all about counting threads etc but the best thing is to get a glycerine filled 0 - 30 psi gauge off e-bay +some nylon tubing and a tee piece total cost is only £10 - 15 max,
tee into the wastgate actuator line and feed the tube through the pasenger window and jam it on the dash board, then find a long hill and push the defender up it in 3 or 4 th gear, you can see the boost pressure (at the waste gate) also you can see when the waste gate kicks in as the needle flutters and falls back slightly, not perfect as the gauge is probably a bit out, but less guess work than counting threads.

Sounds a more technical way of doing it!

So what were your findings. How many threads did you have showing after the testing and what improvements did you notice?

I am told that if you turn it up too far (shorten the rod too much) it will trip the overboost cutoff and will go into limp mode.

Not sure on the threads I gave up on that, just kept adjusting it until I had about 16 17 psi on the gauge just before it starts to fall back, allowing for a small pressure drop over the inter cooler and pipe work I reckoned that would be close to 15 psi in the manifold, result was fine seems pull better than it did before, you still have the turbo lag before it picks up but it pulls away much better.
Quite honestly I don't want to push it, and blow the head off, I don't think Defenders are made for speed and I just wanted it to run OK.
Interesting when I first checked it it was low and I adjusted it, on the next test run there was a muffled boom and a whistle order the bonnet, intercooler hose had blown off, gave me a bit of a shock.
Maybe a bit more technical but it's pretty easy to make and set up, I have heard of people just upping it bit at a time until they hit the limp mode brought on by too much pressure, then they back it off until it runs OK with no over boost, I think this should work fine but just seemed easy to check it this way.

It's a different way of doing it and probably more accurate. I'll turn mine up one thread at a time and see what happens.
The cutoff will shut it down before any damage is done, but I've read that unless it's remapped as well, you should only shorten it two threads.
There are varying opinions so l'm going to try it myself and post the results on here.

Adjusting this did not make much difference.
I don't think it will.
The boost is controlled by the ECU and the threaded rod sets the boost limit.
If you adjust the rod, the ECU alters the wastegate to compensate. If you get a remap, the engine delivers more performance without altering the wastegate rod.
I think it allows the boost to go higher in the ECU programming. So in order to increase boost, you need to alter the ECU program in order to allow higher levels. As standard the ECU does not use the turbo to its preset limit.
So if you adjust the wastegate rod, the most likely thing that will happen is you will trip the overboost as the ECU cannot operate the turbo properly due to the wastegate being messed with.

lightning said:

Adjusting this did not make much difference.
I don't think it will.
The boost is controlled by the ECU and the threaded rod sets the boost limit.
If you adjust the rod, the ECU alters the wastegate to compensate. If you get a remap, the engine delivers more performance without altering the wastegate rod.
I think it allows the boost to go higher in the ECU programming. So in order to increase boost, you need to alter the ECU program in order to allow higher levels. As standard the ECU does not use the turbo to its preset limit.
So if you adjust the wastegate rod, the most likely thing that will happen is you will trip the overboost as the ECU cannot operate the turbo properly due to the wastegate being messed with.

Click to expand...

boost on a defender td5 is set with the wastegate arm the ecu has no contact with the wastegate, it sees boost using the map sensor, cutting fuel when the pre set limit is reached, shortening the rod does increase the boost, the re map adds more fuel, and a boost box or uprated map sensor allows boost above factory limit

lightning said:

Adjusting this did not make much difference.
I don't think it will.
The boost is controlled by the ECU and the threaded rod sets the boost limit.
If you adjust the rod, the ECU alters the wastegate to compensate. If you get a remap, the engine delivers more performance without altering the wastegate rod.
I think it allows the boost to go higher in the ECU programming. So in order to increase boost, you need to alter the ECU program in order to allow higher levels. As standard the ECU does not use the turbo to its preset limit.
So if you adjust the wastegate rod, the most likely thing that will happen is you will trip the overboost as the ECU cannot operate the turbo properly due to the wastegate being messed with.

Click to expand...

so if you know so well why did you ask? ... even though your whole statement is wrong as it's not valid for a defender and for a D2 which has electronically controlled wastegate is the other way around, the ECU doesnt alter any wastegate also you'll not get more boost without shortening the rod or restricting the pressure to the valve with a manual controller whatsoever and then only up to the overboost limit without a boost box or a wide range MAP with proper remap, i was trying to help you from my own experience but it seems that it was in vain.

Shortening the rod made little if any noticeable difference to mine.
There's a hill near here that mine and my friend's TD5 Defenders will just about accelerate in fifth on. If you start at 50mph it will be at 55mph by the top.
Shortening the wastegate rod made no difference on my 110. We tried it on my friend's 90. No difference.
My friend's 2003 90 after a remap (with the rod left at factory settings) is now doing 65 at the top of the hill, if you start at 50mph.
I can't afford to get my 110 done at the moment as the missus's 90 is in for a new clutch and DMF.

i'm affraid that you confuse the ECM's addaptive strategy for acceleration which can be improved with a remap with the boost though, with a remap you can have better throttle response and acceleration even at the same boost cos other elements are involved too...it's a long and complicated story especially if you dont understand exactly how this whole thing works, what i'm saying here is that shortening the rod the boost will grow, that's a fact... and how much did you shorten the rod? untill it went to overboost then one thread back?