Turbo business

1987 Defender 90 with a 300 TDi conversion (prior to purchase).

Recently it's been kicking out more smoke than usual - then a significant oil leak appeared. Identified the leak as coming from the lower pipe out of the intercooler. Disconnected both the pipes from the intercooler and discovered what can only be described as a "sh*t load of oil" in there!

Also then noticed loads of oil had been "spitting" out of the join from the t-piece type connector that feeds to the EGR. Underneath, as a result, was a very black looking alternator.

It's not taking a genius to start realising what the deal is here.

I'm not a mechanic, I'm learning as I go, and after a bit of research, I've learned that:

• a) I might as well get rid of the EGR set up - that's fine, I've bought the bits to do it - seems straight forward, will clean the intercooler at the same time
• b) the Turbo will be the reason for the excess oil and smoke, it's probably failed bearings or something similar

So, with the Turbo, it seems my options are:

• Get a brand new turbo
• Get a second hand turbo
• Get a reconditioned/re-manufactured turbo
• Get a new cartridge and try and replace it within the turbo myself

I quite like the idea of the cartridge, I'm trying to learn everything myself and not shy away from something more tricky - but is this really something I'm likely to achieve with my limited experience? If so, can anyone recommend a reliable place to get the replacement part? ebay is full of them but I'm struggling to understand if there's good quality ones and bad ones, and how to identify them? Trusted shops (craddock, paddocks, etc.) don't seem to stock them.

Or should I just replace the whole turbo, and if so, what should I go for? New, 2nd hand, or recon?

Before you replace the turbo, oil can be forced through the seals on a good turbo by engine pressurisation. In my case it was just blocked breather hoses. I found out this after I replaced the turbo...

Check the play in the turbo first. Take off the inlet (the pipe from the air filter side) so you can get your fingers on the spindle, and see what the movement is. Expect nothing more than a click of movement (is not solid, but about as close to solid as possible) on a good unit. If you can clearly wobble it, then it's the turbo.

Oil can be forced in other ways too, for example the breather from the cyclone.

So, things to check before buying.

julianf said:

Before you replace the turbo, oil can be forced through the seals on a good turbo by engine pressurisation. In my case it was just blocked breather hoses. I found out this after I replaced the turbo...

Check the play in the turbo first. Take off the inlet (the pipe from the air filter side) so you can get your fingers on the spindle, and see what the movement is. Expect nothing more than a click of movement (is not solid, but about as close to solid as possible) on a good unit. If you can clearly wobble it, then it's the turbo.

Oil can be forced in other ways too, for example the breather from the cyclone.

So, things to check before buying.

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Looks like you're right... after recovering from man flu, ive now got back out there to continue work on the landy. No wobble on the spindle, just a load of oil though.

A point of interest... There's no air filter. the pipe goes from mushroom snorkel directly to turbo. one of the hundreds of amazing mods made by the 14 previous owners... that I now need to rectify.

So back to this oil coming out of the turbo issue... I've checked one breather hose, the one on the timing case, and sure enough it was clogged up with dry mud at the other end... but is that actually what you meant? fascinating if that is the cause!

No,he means the cyclone breather and hoses
It's bolted to the rocker cover, black plastic cylinder shape thing above the FIP.

Flossie said:

No,he means the cyclone breather and hoses
It's bolted to the rocker cover, black plastic cylinder shape thing above the FIP.

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Ah ok that makes more sense... that's tomorrow's job sorted then!

If the drain pipe from the turbo was blocked, this might (as in im not sure) also cause an issue - this is assuming the inlet pressure is enough to force the oil through the seal.

But check the easy ones first. Cyclone itself could have become blocked too. Theyre cheap enough to replace (about £15 i think).

So, just coming back to this, as I've been away for work - no blockages in the pipes coming out of the cyclone breather. Replaced cyclone breather itself to be sure.

Still lots of oil sitting in the intake pipe between air filter and turbo. There's actually a small hole in the pipe, causing a hell of a lot of oil to leak out and down to the floor - which might actually be a good thing at the moment while I try and work out where all this oil is coming from.

julianf said:

If the drain pipe from the turbo was blocked, this might (as in im not sure) also cause an issue - this is assuming the inlet pressure is enough to force the oil through the seal.

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Looks like this is the next thing to check.

If it's not that, any other ideas anyone?

To be sure, you say that there is oil in the pipe between the air filter and turbo, right?

Ie pre turbo?

There's only one place that can come from, so I want to be sure I've understood you?

One place if there is no egr at least...

With an egr, I guest you could still be looking at the turbo, and oil being forced that way. But then it would be dripping out the exhaust too, I guess? (I have no experience of egrs)

Yes that's where the oil is. Lots of it builds up in the duct from air filter to turbo. But not always. For example I went for a drive yesterday, about a 20 minute drive, and when I stopped, it had lots of oil in there. Then about an hour later I cleaned it out and I went for another drive for around half an hour. This time when I stopped there was only a dribble of oil. I then came back outside half an hour later to find much more oil had turned up in there since it had been sitting there. Presumably while it had been cooling down?

I don't have an EGR. Blanked it off a while back.

I drove about with the cyclone breather pipe pointed into a tin cup a couple of days ago to try and be certain it was coming out of there. But nothing came out (except a lot of smoke!) But I'm still not convinced as I said because it seems intermittent.

Morning Chap ! Have a look in Al203's thread Potential Disaster page 2 post 34 ! its a vid i did of a crackerd turbo ! that was giving the same symptoms as yours !
+ there should be NO holes in pipes !

Magicgrotto said:

+ there should be NO holes in pipes !

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Agreed, and a new pipe is arriving this morning. But I fear that had I of not had a hole, I wouldn't have noticed the oil leak, and even more oI'll would be building up in there unknown to me.

There's zero play in the turbo by the way. I'm not ruling out the turbo but I want to eliminate everything else first.

It is normal to have some oil in the turbo feed pipes. There can be a build in the intercooler if it is not cleaned out as service specified. Clean everything out then see what you get after that, before you start playing with turbo. It may just be a build up of normal oil over time rather than a dramatic leak.

I agree with @wammers Get the inter cooler off & give it a GOOD clean OUT !

wammers said:

It is normal to have some oil in the turbo feed pipes. There can be a build in the intercooler if it is not cleaned out as service specified. Clean everything out then see what you get after that, before you start playing with turbo. It may just be a build up of normal oil over time rather than a dramatic leak.

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Yeah unfortunately this is the latter I think - I cleaned out the intercooler and inlet etc. last week, replaced the manifold gasket, and all of that business - then, on first start up all seemed fine, left it idling for a while - noticing that there was a bit more smoke than usual from the exhaust but no excessive oil. Then yesterday took her out for her first drive since all that work, and discovered the large amount of oil coming out of the turbo inlet duct again - it's not just a bit of build up, I'm talking at least 25cl of it (based on my knowledge of shot glasses ) from a 20 minute drive. All of this leaks out only once the car is stationary - I'm assume as it's no longer being held in there by airflow/turbo suction. If there wasn't a leak in the duct, then that 25cl of oil will be added to, and added to, and added to, and so on.

Part of me is still thinking this could still be the cyclone somehow sending lots of oil down the breather - but it's a new breather (replaced last week) - I understand that it works in a way relating to vacuum pressure from the turbo somehow - i.e. a diaphragm in the cyclone closes off the breather when the turbo creates a large amount of suction, to stop oil being sucked out of the cyclone. I'm wondering then if there are circumstances where this isn't happening correctly. I'm just guessing though - and all this oil could just be coming from a duff turbo, or being forced out of the turbo seals due to some other pressure issue.

Magicgrotto said:

I agree with @wammers Get the inter cooler off & give it a GOOD clean OUT !

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Sadly I already did this last week

Think your gunna have't to bite the bullet & get a S/H or new turbo

Magicgrotto said:

Think your gunna have't to bite the bullet & get a S/H or new turbo

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looks that way doesn't it.

If your not that good with the spanners or haven't got the money for new then I would go S/H !
But if poss 1 that you could PICK up so you can have a GOOD butchers at !

HeywoodFloyd said:

Yeah unfortunately this is the latter I think - I cleaned out the intercooler and inlet etc. last week, replaced the manifold gasket, and all of that business - then, on first start up all seemed fine, left it idling for a while - noticing that there was a bit more smoke than usual from the exhaust but no excessive oil. Then yesterday took her out for her first drive since all that work, and discovered the large amount of oil coming out of the turbo inlet duct again - it's not just a bit of build up, I'm talking at least 25cl of it (based on my knowledge of shot glasses ) from a 20 minute drive. All of this leaks out only once the car is stationary - I'm assume as it's no longer being held in there by airflow/turbo suction. If there wasn't a leak in the duct, then that 25cl of oil will be added to, and added to, and added to, and so on.

Part of me is still thinking this could still be the cyclone somehow sending lots of oil down the breather - but it's a new breather (replaced last week) - I understand that it works in a way relating to vacuum pressure from the turbo somehow - i.e. a diaphragm in the cyclone closes off the breather when the turbo creates a large amount of suction, to stop oil being sucked out of the cyclone. I'm wondering then if there are circumstances where this isn't happening correctly. I'm just guessing though - and all this oil could just be coming from a duff turbo, or being forced out of the turbo seals due to some other pressure issue.

Click to expand...

Change the turbo then and don't start it until you do. A runaway you will not like at all.