Tracking and Steering wheel

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SpacePig said:
My car was steering left, Gave it to Land Rover they changed everything up to the steering GBox and the car was still steering left even on flat road, new tires and so on...Land Rover said... Normal behavior alignment done, your car is perfect
I went to two other so called Range Rover Specialist and they told me, your car steering left is normal, this how P38 were designed with an old steering design...

Then I believed them and keep having to keep my steering wheel slightly turned right to get straight.

One day I found a small, pathetic store who's was dealing in Range Rover only, and ask them to check my problem out. They fixed my car in just 15 minutes. I did not have to change anything... They just adjusted one of the bar below the car and done.

My conclusion is now simple, anyone telling you that it can't be fix (the car steering left of right) is just wrong (no offense to anyone)
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They centralised the steering box more than likely. There was also the slight problem of one corner being 40mm higher than the rest i seem to recall.
 
I asked a question yesterday that seems to of hit a spot with a lot of you?? I'm not saying it's anything to do with Nascars was using it as an example as they pull left!

and as for your drive it forwards and this will cancel out and steer stright - that's the problem it isn't!!

right so facts:

steering wheel turned to the right and has to be held there to drive straigh and prevent left pull!

scrubbed inside edge on OSF tyre

Steering wheel NEVER been off!

Question: could this be resolved by tracking?
 
I am not going to get to involved so one post only from me - I thought the self-centralising was caused by the amount of castor angle...the more castor, the more it will return to centre, the less, the more chance of floating around....

All tracking does is change the toe-in and toe-out, this is used to dampen the action of Castor - i.e. lots of castor angle will snap the wheels to centre, so toe-in or out is added (depending on front or rear drive or 4 wheel drive) to assist in keeping the wheels straight once the castor has dragged the wheels back to centre with out osscilating left to right (think of a shopping trolley)....think of toe as a damper.....
 
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JohnnyCrash said:
I asked a question yesterday that seems to of hit a spot with a lot of you?? I'm not saying it's anything to do with Nascars was using it as an example as they pull left!

and as for your drive it forwards and this will cancel out and steer stright - that's the problem it isn't!!

right so facts:

steering wheel turned to the right and has to be held there to drive straigh and prevent left pull!

scrubbed inside edge on OSF tyre

Steering wheel NEVER been off!

Question: could this be resolved by tracking?
Click to expand...

Wear on the inside edge of one tyre would suggest a ball joint and incorrect camber angle on that wheel. If you follow the instructions in my first answer you should be able to find the problem. First job get the track checked. If it is out, look for the reason why. Then with wheels straight ahead adjust length of drag link to centralise steering box if needed. As said earlier if the track is out but everything else is sound you will not notice it because it is equalised across the axle as the wheels turn. You will however eventually get problems due to the wear it causes. Maybe your problem is due to the wear in the O/S tyre. You need to find it's cause and rectify it. You could try changing the wheels front to back and see what you get, if it then runs true get a geometry check done. It maybe as well getting one done anyway.
 
Toe is in out left to right castor Is tilt in/out of the wheel from top to bottom being that you have fixed ball joins on a p38 you cannot alter the castor of the wheels unless wear in indicated said parts I don't know what all the fuss is about I basically i answersd the mans question in my first post then camber centralising and all the other bull**** it was a simple answer to a simple question no need for technical garbige as always.
 
Saint.V8 said:
I am not going to get to involved so one post only from me - I thought the self-centralising was caused by the amount of castor angle...the more castor, the more it will return to centre, the less, the more chance of floating around....

All tracking does is change the toe-in and toe-out, this is used to dampen the action of Castor - i.e. lots of castor angle will snap the wheels to centre, so toe-in or out is added (depending on front or rear drive or 4 wheel drive) to assist in keeping the wheels straight once the castor has dragged the wheels back to centre with out osscilating left to right (think of a shopping trolley)....think of toe as a damper.....
Click to expand...

Toe in on a pushed axle or toe out on a driven axle (Eg front wheels drive) is there to make the wheels run parallel or as near to it as possible when the driving forces are applied and by so doing, minimise tyre scrub. If say excess toe out was imposed by setting the track wrongly, that error would be equalised across the axle, and on a flat road both tyres would wear at the same rate. But there would be no bias towards either side due to the self centering effect. Slightly different wear rates would however take place if the car was driven on roads with a marked camber. If the shopping trolley wheels were linked by a track rod they would not oscillate.
 
Saint.V8 said:
I am not going to get to involved so one post only from me - I thought the self-centralising was caused by the amount of castor angle...the more castor, the more it will return to centre, the less, the more chance of floating around....

All tracking does is change the toe-in and toe-out, this is used to dampen the action of Castor - i.e. lots of castor angle will snap the wheels to centre, so toe-in or out is added (depending on front or rear drive or 4 wheel drive) to assist in keeping the wheels straight once the castor has dragged the wheels back to centre with out osscilating left to right (think of a shopping trolley)....think of toe as a damper.....
Click to expand...
toe in is there for rear wheel drive cars as pushing undriven wheels in effect trys to push wheels out sligthly, toe in is there so when wheel are pushed out they are then straight, toe out for front wheel drive cars as driven wheels try to pull in ,toe has other effect too http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rc...V3YILd_TllhKpmtOg&sig2=YbE9P2aGklDxQgYwBkIdeA
 
defender300td1 said:
Toe is in out left to right castor Is tilt in/out of the wheel from top to bottom being that you have fixed ball joins on a p38 you cannot alter the castor of the wheels unless wear in indicated said parts I don't know what all the fuss is about I basically i answersd the mans question in my first post then camber centralising and all the other bull**** it was a simple answer to a simple question no need for technical garbige as always.
Click to expand...

Toe in, toe out is the difference that the centerline of the front and rear of the wheel is from the centre line of the vehicle. It is measured as an angle then converted to a measurement depending on the size of the wheel. That is why the track needs to be checked if you fit larger wheels with a different rolling radius. The tilt of the wheel in or out is camber angle not castor angle. King pin inclination is the angle the hub pivots are set at. Castor angle is the amount the centerline of the hub is set back from the kingpin angle. The Akerman angle are the amount the inner wheel turns in relation to the outer one on lock. The inner wheel always turns in more that the outer wheel. It was you who started this by saying the track being set wrong will cause wander. It won't. Unless the track is wrong because of one or more worn components, causing the wheels to be able to move independently.
 
I had a look at this fred to learn a bit about tracking and have got soooo much more.

I've come to the conclusion that Wammers must be right, ffs he's built a frickin' plane from drawings.

Thanks for the lesson in steering 'n stuff.
 
This is very interesting, its highlighted an obviously massive mis conception amongst the mechanic fraternity, but engineering and physics win, wammers is right, and I rang up my mate who works as a tyre fitter and he was wrong, but his boss who is an ex f1 mechanic knew
 
Chrisfrain2007 said:
This is very interesting, its highlighted an obviously massive mis conception amongst the mechanic fraternity, but engineering and physics win, wammers is right, and I rang up my mate who works as a tyre fitter and he was wrong, but his boss who is an ex f1 mechanic knew
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yes it surprisning how many misconceptions there are ,i dont think basics are allways taught now
 
wammers said:
They centralised the steering box more than likely. There was also the slight problem of one corner being 40mm higher than the rest i seem to recall.
Click to expand...

Nope, I was there for the whole procedure and they NEVER touched the SBox, the SBox was perfectly aligned, they just touched one of the bar below the car one connected to the Steering damper.

And yep you have a good memory and Land Rover fix my height problem, still the car was steering to the left after they fixed this.

I am not sure if this make any sense to you but this small garage have a Level 4 Land Rover Mechanic as staff (a team of 3), and after I checked with Land Rover there are only 7 people like this in Japan, this is for me the first time that I talked to someone in Japan who knows what they are talking about.
 
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SpacePig said:
Nope, I was there for the whole procedure and they NEVER touched the SBox, the SBox was perfectly aligned, they just touched one of the bar below the car one connected to the Steering damper.

And yep you have a good memory and Land Rover fix my height problem, still the car was steering to the left after they fixed this.

I am not sure if this make any sense to you but this small garage have a Level 4 Land Rover Mechanic as staff (a team of 3), and after I checked with Land Rover there are only 7 people like this in Japan, this is for me the first time that I talked to someone in Japan who knows what they are talking about.
Click to expand...
read the link i put in post 48 it explains it reasonably in there
 
SpacePig said:
Nope, I was there for the whole procedure and they NEVER touched the SBox, the SBox was perfectly aligned, they just touched one of the bar below the car one connected to the Steering damper.

And yep you have a good memory and Land Rover fix my height problem, still the car was steering to the left after they fixed this.

I am not sure if this make any sense to you but this small garage have a Level 4 Land Rover Mechanic as staff (a team of 3), and after I checked with Land Rover there are only 7 people like this in Japan, this is for me the first time that I talked to someone in Japan who knows what they are talking about.
Click to expand...


Yeah they centralised the steering box in relation to the straight ahead position of the wheels. They adjusted the drag link. As i advised the OP to do. I do know what i am talking about you know. Think I advised you to do the same very early on in your steering wander thread. But you did not bother to take notice.
 
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wammers said:
Yeah they centralised the steering box in relation to the straight ahead position of the wheels. They adjusted the drag link. As i advised the OP to do. I do know what i am talking about you know.
Click to expand...

Never doubted you, I am have no "skills" when it comes to car mechanics, just reported what happened. The only people who touched the SBox was LR when they changed it, and gave back the car steering left, they took it back and said it was normal. These people in 15 minutes fixed the problem without touching the SBox.
 
wammers said:
Think I advised you to do the same very early on in your steering wander thread. But you did not bother to take notice.
Click to expand...

You are totally right, I believe that I reported this to LR, but when LR, the company that makes the car tell you nope, that's not it and when other repeat the same thing... well you do not argue ;-)
 
SpacePig said:
Never doubted you, I am have no "skills" when it comes to car mechanics, just reported what happened. The only people who touched the SBox was LR when they changed it, and gave back the car steering left, they took it back and said it was normal. These people in 15 minutes fixed the problem without touching the SBox.
Click to expand...

But they did they adjusted the drag link so that when the wheels were pointing straight ahead the steering box was centralised. It is a well known reason for steering wander on the P38. Mentioned in tech bulletins. That is why you must always have the wheels in the straight ahead position and the steering box centralised when you change a drag link. The link is then adjusted for length to suit. You cannot just throw one on.
 
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