To cam or not to cam.

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sas1810

sas1810

New Member
Posts
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Location
back in Willenhall, West Midlands.
Good evening my fellow range rover addicts. Contemplating changing the cam on my 2001 4.6 lpg. It's done 126000 miles now. Want to catch it before it goes, when not if.

Any suggestions as to what you would go for? And do the tappets at the same time? Anything else you can think I would do with changing at the same time?

Cheers in advance

Dave
 
sas1810 said:
Good evening my fellow range rover addicts. Contemplating changing the cam on my 2001 4.6 lpg. It's done 126000 miles now. Want to catch it before it goes, when not if.

Any suggestions as to what you would go for? And do the tappets at the same time? Anything else you can think I would do with changing at the same time?

Cheers in advance

Dave
Click to expand...


Buy OEM lifters, aftermarket ones vary too much in quality. The Thor's engine management system is more sensitive to fluctuations in inlet manifold pressure so they can't handle as much cam overlap as a GEMS engine, so if you're thinking of a hotter cam - think mild - Korma rather than Vindaloo. Real Steel's Hurricane is a nice cam for a Thor, a lift in torque across the rev-range without upsetting the Engine Management parameters - any hotter than that then I suspect you'll experience running issues. Even if you're sticking a stock one back in - then you're doing you engine a big favour - With sludging being less of an issue these days, swarf from cam wear is the biggest killer of Rover V8s - keep the cam in good shape and prevent the engine from overheating which encourages slipped liners and the Rover V8 can run to high mileages. Oh and stick a quality cam-chain in there while you're at it - again real steel do a nice (better than OEM) roller chain and gear kit for about fifty quid.
 
Changed the cam on mine recently 2000 4.6 thor. Vast improvement, like a new engine so well woth it. I had already replaced my heads and unfortunately they were skimmed so much that i needed adjustable push rods for the pre-load. You will probably get away with new set of standard pushrods. But if you are not doing anything with your heads then this should not be an issue. To get the front timing case off you need to drop the sump so watch out for the two small 8mm bolts that hold the oil strainer on to the bottom of the timing case. I fitted a standard cam, make sure its for a 4.6 (red) and not a 4.0 (Orange). Also fitted a 'stiff' timing chain and sprockets plus new cam followers. I also replaced the water pump as its all part of the timing case and I didn't know how long the old one had been on. New crank seal. Good CamLube and if possible steel valley gasket. I purchased a tool to assist in removing and replacing the crankshaft bolt (big torque figure!).
Whilst everything exposed you will be able to check the condition of pulleys etc. Maybee a new sepentine belt to finish off?
To get access I didn't remove the oil cooler or disconnect those pipes., just removed it from the radiator and removed that + air con rad.

Good advice from Stuck againSteve if upgrading.

ps to stop someone questioning adjustable push rods. I prefere this method over shimms under the rocker pedestals which alter the geometry!
 
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Thanks for your help guy's!
Was thinking of going for the upgrade on the cam. More of a madras kinda guy lol.
Pulleys and belt were changed after collapsing just over 1000 miles ago. Thought about the pump as not sure on the age of it. And crank seal as I might have a very small weep there.

So what we talking about? £3 - 400?
 
P38 Range Rover & Discovery 2 High Torque Camshaft to suit 4.0/4.6 GEMS/MEMS Engines - V8 Tuner £260 ish but no good as you need a 'Thor' one and this could be more expensive - and the one below but it gives you an idea
Range Rover Range Rover P38 - Accessories - Performance Enhancement for Camshaft +18-22 BHP V8 4.0 4.6 Camshaft +18-22 BHP V8 4.0/4.6 from Bearmach ::: SKU: BA 2187 £170 ish

Trying to explain that most things on the market are for the earlier GEMS engine so make sure whatever you get is for THor! Real Steel recommended

Plus the other parts
Gaskets Plus the Upper manifold gaskets and sump, stiff chain (ur uprated but make sure it will fit a thor timing case) Followers and push rods, cam lube etc so not so bad plus a weekends work will give you 20 plus BHP and torque
 
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If you are going for real steels cam make sure it has the retaining plate slot cut into it,also not sure if their cam sprockets will do as you will have a cam sensor wich picks its signal from cam pulley,not sure if reel steels are Thor compatible,best to ask them first,when I rebuilt my engine(gems)I purchased all my parts from lrdirect they have the option of britpart all the way up to landrover genuine parts,if I remember correctly genuine landrover cam pulley was around £140 but you can get Oem for about £14,the hardest part about using their website is you need the landrover part numbers,for this I used to go to rimmerbros website and write them all down.i used a piper 285 high lift cam,Oem lifters,while you are in there also worth replacing the oil pump.
 
What is this special tool for the crankshaft bolt of which you speak?

I'm about to do the head gaskets on mine and a new cam will be part of the job. I'm just going to go for a standard one though. Where's the best place to get one?

stopover said:
Changed the cam on mine recently 2000 4.6 thor. Vast improvement, like a new engine so well woth it. I had already replaced my heads and unfortunately they were skimmed so much that i needed adjustable push rods for the pre-load. You will probably get away with new set of standard pushrods. But if you are not doing anything with your heads then this should not be an issue. To get the front timing case off you need to drop the sump so watch out for the two small 8mm bolts that hold the oil strainer on to the bottom of the timing case. I fitted a standard cam, make sure its for a 4.6 (red) and not a 4.0 (Orange). Also fitted a 'stiff' timing chain and sprockets plus new cam followers. I also replaced the water pump as its all part of the timing case and I didn't know how long the old one had been on. New crank seal. Good CamLube and if possible steel valley gasket. I purchased a tool to assist in removing and replacing the crankshaft bolt (big torque figure!).
Whilst everything exposed you will be able to check the condition of pulleys etc. Maybee a new sepentine belt to finish off?
To get access I didn't remove the oil cooler or disconnect those pipes., just removed it from the radiator and removed that + air con rad.

Good advice from Stuck againSteve if upgrading.

ps to stop someone questioning adjustable push rods. I prefere this method over shimms under the rocker pedestals which alter the geometry!
Click to expand...
 
What is often overlooked when doing a Camshaft/lifter overhaul is the state of the rocker shafts & arms. When the shafts are dismantled, it's usual to find that the shafts are badly worn-not noticeable from above as they always wear below. Cost of replacement shafts, rockers and push rods is quite low and well worth it. Remember that the shafts, whilst identical, have to be fitted the right way round otherwise they will be starved of oil....full details in RAVE.
Couldn't believe the state of the camshaft on my Disco.,3.5, V8 some years ago. The lobes were almost round, it was a miracle that any fuel made it's way to the cylinders-the car should have been doing over 50 mpg !!!
Fitted a new cam/lifter kit and replaced the rocker shafts, rockers and push rods and couldn't believe the difference.
 
BRILLIANT!

so,

1. new cam
2. OEM hydraulic tappets x16
3. push rods x16
4. rocker shafts x2
5. metal valley gkt
6. cam gears and chain
7. front cover gkt
8. new water pump
9. new sump gkt
10. rocker arms x16

and a weekend to do the job :D:D:D:D
 
sas1810 said:
BRILLIANT!

so,

1. new cam
2. OEM hydraulic tappets x16
3. push rods x16
4. rocker shafts x2
5. metal valley gkt
6. cam gears and chain
7. front cover gkt
8. new water pump
9. new sump gkt
10. rocker arms x16

and a weekend to do the job :D:D:D:D
Click to expand...

I would do the oil pump gears at the same time as previously suggested.

The cam won't just 'go', it will just gradually get more and more worn.

Irish, where did you get your rocker stuff from? The last time I looked, the parts for the rockers cost more than the rest of the job put together!?

Do the cam bearings ever need doing? I've heard the odd mention of these being replaced...
 
sas1810 said:
Had new oil and filter under 600 miles ago :):D
Of course, after draining the engine, new antifreeze is a must. :):)
Click to expand...

:behindsofa:

I appreciate that...but if you have the sump off and are doing the rockers and exposing the valley and behind the front cover, it will be a good opportunity to clean the exposed parts, especially the sump of any sludge/muck that has built up. You could also clean the oil pick up strainer whilst you are at it.

For the Disco., I got the stuff from John Craddock in Cannock and when I bought the short engine for the 4.6 from Autopost in London I bought the rocker arms, shafts & push rods from them at the same time. The short engine came with the camshaft, lifters sprockets and timing chain already fitted
 
Last edited:
Irishrover said:
What is often overlooked when doing a Camshaft/lifter overhaul is the state of the rocker shafts & arms. When the shafts are dismantled, it's usual to find that the shafts are badly worn-not noticeable from above as they always wear below.
Click to expand...

Yes, it's the swarf from the cam lobes which gets caught in the tiny gaps between the rocker and shaft, it can also cause the rocker to snap as the friction between the two increases due to the damage to the surfaces. By the time you've got rocker shaft wear you are likely to have picked up swarf in the main and big-ends shells too.
 
Well Craddocks is only about 6 miles from me. So thats no problem. Found a piper kit on the bay for 425 including the tappets and the gkts.

But did change the plugs yesterday. Take a look at my other post. You'll see what I think the problem was.
 
sas1810 said:
Well Craddocks is only about 6 miles from me. So thats no problem. Found a piper kit on the bay for 425 including the tappets and the gkts.

But did change the plugs yesterday. Take a look at my other post. You'll see what I think the problem was.
Click to expand...

Be careful with eBay lad bought a cam off there for his RS turbo cam was good but tappets were made from cheese.
 
sas1810 said:
Well Craddocks is only about 6 miles from me. So thats no problem. Found a piper kit on the bay for 425 including the tappets and the gkts.

But did change the plugs yesterday. Take a look at my other post. You'll see what I think the problem was.
Click to expand...

wammers said:
Be careful with eBay lad bought a cam off there for his RS turbo cam was good but tappets were made from cheese.
Click to expand...

Careful there with E bay.......... Lots of chinese knock offs out there made from cheap metals, with very good packaging looking like the real deal. US has alot of problems with those chinses Knock offs in everything.

you got no warranty or recourse with ebay deals. By the times something goes wrong to late
 
StuckAgainSteve said:
Buy OEM lifters, aftermarket ones vary too much in quality. The Thor's engine management system is more sensitive to fluctuations in inlet manifold pressure so they can't handle as much cam overlap as a GEMS engine, so if you're thinking of a hotter cam - think mild - Korma rather than Vindaloo. Real Steel's Hurricane is a nice cam for a Thor, a lift in torque across the rev-range without upsetting the Engine Management parameters - any hotter than that then I suspect you'll experience running issues. Even if you're sticking a stock one back in - then you're doing you engine a big favour - With sludging being less of an issue these days, swarf from cam wear is the biggest killer of Rover V8s - keep the cam in good shape and prevent the engine from overheating which encourages slipped liners and the Rover V8 can run to high mileages. Oh and stick a quality cam-chain in there while you're at it - again real steel do a nice (better than OEM) roller chain and gear kit for about fifty quid.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately Real Steel's Viper Hurricane is NOT suitable for Gems or Thor engines - I spoke to Charles about this yesterday.

PIPER 270 or Torque Max from RPi have been developed specifically - I would go with the latter in a RR
 
I thought the only recommended cam for the RRs for both GEMS and THOR was the standard one.

YIn the ansence of any other improvements, you might get slightly more bhp from a warmer cam, but it will be at the expense of torque and vice versa.

Or have I been reading the wrong articles?

I am genuinely interested as I am about to do the same thing, but I don't want to compromise my engine in any way so am leaning very much to keeping it standard.
 
griffman said:
Unfortunately Real Steel's Viper Hurricane is NOT suitable for Gems or Thor engines - I spoke to Charles about this yesterday.

PIPER 270 or Torque Max from RPi have been developed specifically - I would go with the latter in a RR
Click to expand...

Shows how you can get different info from different people - I was looking into changing my cam about a year ago and the Hurricane was recommended! I presume the Torque Max is the Piper 270i renamed? I guess having a 270 and a 270i was confusing! I've used Piper cams in many different engines over the years - never had a problem.
 
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