1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Welcome To LandyZone!

    LandyZone is the biggest Land Rover forum on the net. We have plenty of very knowledgable members so if you have any questions about your Land Rover or just want to connect with other Landy owners, you're in the right place.

    Registering is free and easy just click here, we hope to see you on the forums soon!

TD5 race studs - torque spec?

Discussion in 'TD5' started by Bennehboy, May 8, 2017.

< Previous Thread | Next Thread >
  1. Bennehboy

    Bennehboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Posts:
    1,951
    Likes Received:
    208
    Location:
    Huddersfield
    I've managed to source a set of these unobtanium studs nuts & washers (you know, the 1000 pound ones!), what I don't have is any information about what these need to be torqued up to - they're made from some ludicrously strong steel alloy so it won't be the same torque procedure as standard stretch bolts....

    Anyone got a set and know the specs?

    If not, any ideas about 'guesstimating' it - I was thinking to use a digital torque meter on a standard bolt after the final angle tightening which should give a NM figure to go with. Then just use a 2 or 3 stage tighen to torque.

    And yes I'm a nob for wanting to fit them, but sod it :D
     
  2. Shifty1962

    Shifty1962 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2008
    Posts:
    4,209
    Likes Received:
    86
    Location:
    The Winchester Club - Englandshire
    Never even knew such things existed. I've never snapped a TD5 head stud yet and I've reused some a few times when new ones were not to hand.
     
  3. Bennehboy

    Bennehboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Posts:
    1,951
    Likes Received:
    208
    Location:
    Huddersfield
    It's more to do with being a daft sod and running a lot of boost and fuel, so the head can lift... these help keep the head clamped on the block.
     
    bankz5152 likes this.
  4. Thor1950

    Thor1950 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2012
    Posts:
    39,247
    Likes Received:
    3,929
    Location:
    Land of the midnight sun
    until the threads pull out of the block
     
  5. blue beasty

    blue beasty Leaks an prone to bits dropping off Global Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2007
    Posts:
    52,167
    Likes Received:
    15,110
    Location:
    Gloucestercotshirewolds
    Can't you get info from the stud manufacturer?

    Can't find anything Landy specific but specs for other vehicles seem to vary by about the same amount according to stud diameter eg 135 ft/lbs for 9/16, 90 ft/lbs for m11 etc.

    They all seem to agree it should be done with clean threads, in 3 equal stages and with lubricant.
     
  6. Bennehboy

    Bennehboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Posts:
    1,951
    Likes Received:
    208
    Location:
    Huddersfield
    It's kind of tricky regarding getting the info, a precision engineering firm makes them - but they make them to plans so don't have the torque specs. These are made on behalf of a reseller who I can't find any information about, they were then retailed by Chesterfield Race Diagnostics who have closed down due to the unfortunate death of the chap who I believe was the proprietor.
     
  7. Bennehboy

    Bennehboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Posts:
    1,951
    Likes Received:
    208
    Location:
    Huddersfield
    Yeah there is that, but it's a bigger challenge to supply enough fuel & boost to get anywhere near that scenario with a TD5.
     
  8. bankz5152

    bankz5152 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Posts:
    7,799
    Likes Received:
    1,869
    Location:
    South London/North Kent
    How very unfortunate. I was planning to get a few bits from them... Guess not.

    I think Alive tuning do them as well, or used to might be worth giving em a ring!
     
  9. Bennehboy

    Bennehboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Posts:
    1,951
    Likes Received:
    208
    Location:
    Huddersfield
    I spoke with Gary already, they've not shifted a set for a while (not surprised with the price), and he couldn't remember the torque details but was sure it was different to stock.
     
  10. bankz5152

    bankz5152 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2012
    Posts:
    7,799
    Likes Received:
    1,869
    Location:
    South London/North Kent
    Thats a shame. Though odd, as what if some body does buy some and they don't know the ratings!

    I had a look, couldnt find much online. Seems only Turners & Alive do them, maybe try Gigglepin? I know they used to race TD5s
     
  11. Bennehboy

    Bennehboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Posts:
    1,951
    Likes Received:
    208
    Location:
    Huddersfield
    Ah, forgot about Turners!
     
    bankz5152 likes this.
  12. Bennehboy

    Bennehboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Posts:
    1,951
    Likes Received:
    208
    Location:
    Huddersfield
    No luck from Turners, although Frida was very quick to respond as always.
     
    bankz5152 likes this.
  13. ozzyboydeano

    ozzyboydeano Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2013
    Posts:
    843
    Likes Received:
    130
    depends on how magnetic they are try stick a magnet to them if it doesn't stick they are the real deal
    its actually common for manufactures to use none magnetic bolts and studs in exhaust systems as they are less prone to stretching with heat as its none Ferris

    a stud has a better clamp down force than a bolt the same grade ... this is why many high performance engines use studs rather than bolts on cylinder heads

    I would stick to the same torque sequence .as the stud alone will have a better clamp down force to a bolt
     
    resto_d1 likes this.
  14. Bennehboy

    Bennehboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Posts:
    1,951
    Likes Received:
    208
    Location:
    Huddersfield
    They're the real deal.

    Turners said to be careful to not overclamp the MLS head gasket as that would actually degrade its ability to maintain a seal. Given that these studs are likely to be less stretchy, won't using the same torque sequence result in a much higher clamping presure?
     
  15. ozzyboydeano

    ozzyboydeano Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2013
    Posts:
    843
    Likes Received:
    130
    just like any bolt or stud if its over clamped the stud or bolt will stretch and it looses its clamp pressure
    if you have issues maybe you have used the head bolts more than once or twice as there a TTY bolt
    maybe ask turners what specs should to use ... that's on the grade of material used used in the stud

    bearing in mind is these studs used with a washer or with out a washer ? the reason I ask is because without a washer you may get wrong results on the torque wrench

    maybe this will help it explains clamp down pressures and also MLS gaskets and other tips and tricks
    http://www.enginebuildermag.com/2005/07/perfect-engine-sealing-starts-with-proper-head-bolt-use/
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  16. Bennehboy

    Bennehboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Posts:
    1,951
    Likes Received:
    208
    Location:
    Huddersfield
    The studs come with washers and nuts, all are made from 17ph4 in h900 condition. Turners said they had not come across these before.

    I've never re-used head bolts or had issues with them, only ever used genuine LR or AMC bolts too.

    I'm putting these studs in as I've pushed things far enough to have experienced oil bypassing into the coolant due to head lift.

    It's all a bit of fun really :D

    Thanks for the link.
     
    bankz5152 likes this.
  17. ozzyboydeano

    ozzyboydeano Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2013
    Posts:
    843
    Likes Received:
    130
    are you sure its not the oil cooler that is split ?
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2017
  18. Bennehboy

    Bennehboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Posts:
    1,951
    Likes Received:
    208
    Location:
    Huddersfield
    Positive, I already replaced the HG and used stock bolts, problem solved.

    Oil cooler was replaced ~ 18 months ago when I rebuilt the engine.

    The studs are preventative maintenance for silly fuelling.
     
    bankz5152 and ozzyboydeano like this.
  19. ozzyboydeano

    ozzyboydeano Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2013
    Posts:
    843
    Likes Received:
    130
    depending on how silly
    have you strengthened the bottom of the engine for the extra silly loads? ie for the extra silly loads the crank shaft will see ..
    also has the block and head also been checked for warpage have both been decked
    I run an LPG system on mine this thing can go ..but to much makes my engine valve bounce power is awesome though so I had to tone it down abit via my regulator I have left a few big engines in small utes off the mark

    its a shame the TD5 engine doesn't have variable valve timing so regardless how much fuel enters the engine the inlet and exhaust valve open up the same unless one was to change the cam to an aftermarket cam regardless of the ignition timing
    basically dumping in more fuel the valves will only have a set limit to how much it can intake and get rid of

    EGTS also go along way and a good way to monitor before you melt a piston or damage head and gasket

    ps when you experience this head lift are you also experiencing milky oil on the dip stick ?

    was the oil cooler a good oil cooler ..I sent 3 oil coolers back because the sealing surface between both surfaces was warped (oil cooler was warped ) I ran a straight edge across the to oil holes.... I had aproxx 3 mm gap on one end .... 3 mm gap is big considering the distance between to oil holes ..the reason I sent them back 3 times was I didn't like the fact that I would be putting the oil cooler under stress while installing resulting in 2 years time doing the job again

    ps if there is any slight warpage in the block or head regardless what bolts you use the warpage is still there just saying
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2017
  20. Bennehboy

    Bennehboy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2011
    Posts:
    1,951
    Likes Received:
    208
    Location:
    Huddersfield
    Yeah, got mayo in the breather and filler cap, didn't check the dip.

    The oil cooler was the more expensive one that was available at the time, I gave it a good look over and all appeared well. In reality the existing one was still good and the cooler swap was some straw clutching, it turned out that the head at the time was cracked on exhaust port number 1 (and this was NOT picked up on a pressure test)... so in other words I've still got another good cooler here if need be.

    Crank is stock. Head and block are not warped - head is the much beefier AMC type.

    I realise there's a limit as to what can be pushed through this engine and that I'm at the point of diminishing returns - the tune was switched from injection duration based to AFR based lately and it's amazing how a 'proper' tune can deliver power so much more effeciently... lower EGT's, less boost production, better fuel consumption. The studs are probably overkill now but I have them so why not.
     
< Previous Thread | Next Thread >