TD5 engine maturing - what would you do?

My odometer is nudging into 6 figures. I tend to think that once an engine has gone past the 100,000 mile mark it's time to start thinking about what to do when it gets tired. Of course some people have TD5s that have soldiered on for twice or even three times this, so it's probably not urgent. So as to ensure there is no significant interruption in my Land Rover motoring pleasure I've been thinking about what might need doing.

Start saving up so I can bend the plastic at Turner engineering when the time comes.

Get a secondhand engine off Ebay and work my way through it changing bearing shells, piston rings and other wear items so it is ready to drop in when I need it.

Buy a secondhand engine and drop it in and hope for the best.

Give up and get a Nissan Micra.

Anything else?

What would you do?

Keep changing the oil and filters and not worry.

Cheers

I'm with @neilly here!

Judging by how you tinker with it and fitting the OD etc etc I think you're probably a sensible driver, and you haven't mapped it or anything. If you keep on top of regular maintenance (which I'm sure you do) it will outlive the chassis and keep chugging along.

Some Td5's have done astronomical mileage, I've put 25,000 on mine in two years, and I bought mine with over 100000 on the clock to start with!

I got min mildy mapped for low down torque so you hold gears better, and never have to rev her , even towing. I blanked off the egr with a plate on the manifold and I change oil and oil filters every 5 thousand miles now, it great!

Yes, I've been diligently changing oil and filters every 6000 miles since I got it, around 70,000 miles ago. The engine itself seems OK, the most involved mechanical thing I've done is change the injector washers and O rings, plus several injector looms which tend to ingest oil. When I last had the rocker cover off to do so, there was slight fretting on some of the cam lobes and followers. But it's taken the equivalent of three or four times round the world to get like that, so it is not happening quickly. With the overdrive fitted, it is very rarely over 2500 rpm, maybe 3000 max under hard acceleration through the gears. So while I'm a faster driver than most of my friends, I try to do so with what advanced drivers call 'mechanical sympathy'.

Whenever I've needed a ride home on a flatbed truck it has been a hard-to-diagnose electronic fault (ECU, wiring loom, aftermarket immobiliser) rather than a mechanical issue. Oh, and a fuel starvation problem once.

It's like making a will. You, and your engine, get to an age where it is a sensible thing to do. Obviously, I'm hoping for a long and happy life but I'm thinking about what to do if things turn out otherwise!

Can't believe I've done 70,000 miles without taking the engine out. Or even having the head off.

I think there are now oversized pistons available.

New heads

Only worry is rocker assembley

Brown said:

My odometer is nudging into 6 figures. I tend to think that once an engine has gone past the 100,000 mile mark it's time to start thinking about what to do when it gets tired. Of course some people have TD5s that have soldiered on for twice or even three times this, so it's probably not urgent. So as to ensure there is no significant interruption in my Land Rover motoring pleasure I've been thinking about what might need doing.

Start saving up so I can bend the plastic at Turner engineering when the time comes.

Get a secondhand engine off Ebay and work my way through it changing bearing shells, piston rings and other wear items so it is ready to drop in when I need it.

Buy a secondhand engine and drop it in and hope for the best.

Give up and get a Nissan Micra.

Anything else?

What would you do?

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IMO It's a no brainer - recon a second hand engine. Why:

• Turners are awesome. I've bought a lot of stuff from them and they are no end of help on the phone and email. I've had email replies at 10pm from Frida. If I was going to buy a reconditioned engine I would get it from Turners. However, they are expensive - this is understandable!
• Your engine is going to be fine for a very long time, so you have time on your hands to do it yourself.
• You'll get that great sense of achievement from doing it yourself.
• A micra doesn't really fit in with your Welsh retreat

MJI said:

I think there are now oversized pistons available.

New heads

Only worry is rocker assembley

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The wear on the cam and followers is clearly not just my problem. There's been some discussion on here about it. I seem to remember Benneboy said that it was because oil additives are different now compared to when the engine was originally under test. It's not too bad, but some of the surfaces are distinctly less shiny than others. I seem to remember there was a fair bit of discussion online that machining wasn't recommended on the TD5 - no rebores, crank regrinds and so on. But it's looking like people are doing it successfully now. As the supply of low mileage engines dries up, no doubt more folks will experiment.

Al2O3 said:

IMO It's a no brainer - recon a second hand engine. Why:

• Turners are awesome. I've bought a lot of stuff from them and they are no end of help on the phone and email. I've had email replies at 10pm from Frida. If I was going to buy a reconditioned engine I would get it from Turners. However, they are expensive - this is understandable!
• Your engine is going to be fine for a very long time, so you have time on your hands to do it yourself.
• You'll get that great sense of achievement from doing it yourself.
• A micra doesn't really fit in with your Welsh retreat

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The more I think about it, the more I like the idea of getting a spare engine and working on it. The last few times I had engines apart was in my 20s and the idea was to get them going again with minimum expense in a kind of bush mechanic sort of way. My friends and I had no money - this was before the days of minimum wage - and the cars were generally just one MOT away from the scrapyard. I would enjoy the luxury of actually being able to get new components and fit them. The sheer pleasure of getting parcels from Turners and putting stuff together with lashings of Millers assembly oil. Being able to afford an engine stand rather than merely heaving the thing around on the kitchen floor. Working on an engine that's (I hope) going to last a long time rather than just limp along for a few thousand miles before seizing again.

Several people I know at work have an approach to motoring where you buy a cheap Japanese hatchback and thrash it for a couple of years with zero maintenance until the price of getting it through an MOT is higher than the price of another one, and then throw it away. This seems to me terribly wasteful, especially on the part of people who flaunt their green credentials, so I'd much rather have something where the basic model can be kept going, and components can be recycled.

Considering this myself. If my TD5 goes bang ill be going for Toyota 3UZ V8.

Just read through my post above and want to further qualify what I said about Turners because I don't want anyone getting the wrong idea. Reconditioned engines are generally expensive. You can get cheaper ones from places if that's the route you want to go down. If you want a top one, then you'll need to pay accordingly for the high quality Turners produce. That's what I would do if I wasn't doing it myself.
Their parts are very reasonably priced and top quality, the website easy to use and I bought nearly all of the parts for my engine rebuild from Turners. Top people!

mines getting close too, but it doesn't feel any different to when I got it at 50k. If anything it feels better and loser, I have however changed loads of bits as they have failed,
clutch, flywheel, starter motor, aux belt, rollers, tensioners, fuel pumps, filter housings, injector harnesses, injector washers etc. Bit servicing it every 5 k the oil is always clean and it should soldier on for another 100k.

If you have the time then re building an engine can be pretty therapeutic, I have been slowly collecting bit together and getting ready for next year when I will have the time to take mine out and re build it.
I have to change the cam shaft as it is damaged on one lobe so I may as well do the whole business, engine has 119K on it and it would be nice to have the engine it top order and cleaned up like new.
So far I have some rings, a spare block, an alternator, a water pump, and a spare piston con rod, and it helps to spread the cost.
Head was replaced with one of the better aftermarket heads before I bought it so I hope that is covered, but I am suspicious of the lash adjusters it may be that some of them needed to be changed when the head was done.

Come to think of it I have done a bit to the peripherals. It has had a new fan belt and tensioner, a new fuel pressure regulator, EGR blank, and has been through two crank position sensors. But I've not had it seriously apart.

gazman said:

mines getting close too, but it doesn't feel any different to when I got it at 50k. If anything it feels better and loser, I have however changed loads of bits as they have failed,
clutch, flywheel, starter motor, aux belt, rollers, tensioners, fuel pumps, filter housings, injector harnesses, injector washers etc. Bit servicing it every 5 k the oil is always clean and it should soldier on for another 100k.

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I'm not noticing anything wrong with it. I did 400 odd miles yesterday and when we weren't in a traffic jam we positively flew along.

raywin said:

If you have the time then re building an engine can be pretty therapeutic, I have been slowly collecting bit together and getting ready for next year when I will have the time to take mine out and re build it.
I have to change the cam shaft as it is damaged on one lobe so I may as well do the whole business, engine has 119K on it and it would be nice to have the engine it top order and cleaned up like new.
So far I have some rings, a spare block, an alternator, a water pump, and a spare piston con rod, and it helps to spread the cost.
Head was replaced with one of the better aftermarket heads before I bought it so I hope that is covered, but I am suspicious of the lash adjusters it may be that some of them needed to be changed when the head was done.

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I think I'll do it the other way round, by getting a second hand engine and then seeing what it needs.
Incidentally, I didn't happen to see you yesterday did I? On the way through Pateley Bridge a man in a dark coloured Defender with van sides kindly paused by some parked cars to let me past. He'd got a bar of square shaped LED lights just above the windscreen. Was it you?

Brown said:

Come to think of it I have done a bit to the peripherals. It has had a new fan belt and tensioner, a new fuel pressure regulator, EGR blank, and has been through two crank position sensors. But I've not had it seriously apart.

I'm not noticing anything wrong with it. I did 400 odd miles yesterday and when we weren't in a traffic jam we positively flew along.

I think I'll do it the other way round, by getting a second hand engine and then seeing what it needs.
Incidentally, I didn't happen to see you yesterday did I? On the way through Pateley Bridge a man in a dark coloured Defender with van sides kindly paused by some parked cars to let me past. He'd got a bar of square shaped LED lights just above the windscreen. Was it you?

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Hi Brian
Sounded like mine until the LED bar, mine is black with van sides but has a very distinctive number plate.you would know it if you saw it.
Fancy coming to PB and not giving me a shout, were you just passing through?

raywin said:

Hi Brian
Sounded like mine until the LED bar, mine is black with van sides but has a very distinctive number plate.you would know it if you saw it.
Fancy coming to PB and not giving me a shout, were you just passing through?

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Sorry! It was a bit of a quick decision to go for a trip so would have been short notice and I didn't want to impose. Next time I'm in the area I'll drop you a line advance and maybe we can meet up for a cup of something and a chat about Land Rover maintenance - or anything else.

If - as it sounds - your skills are up to it then the second hand one to fully refurb in a relaxed manner seems top idea. Mine has 220k on it (with a Turner head at 140k for the usual reasons). Yours doesn't sound like its going to be 'urgent' for some time to come.

When mine finally pops (and if there are no sensible Euro6+ options developed by then) then Turners will be getting my custom (as I am sadly far from up to a full rebuild of a used one...... ;-( The head was OK with some skilled mate's 'help') Cheers, A

I've not had a TD5 engine apart before, but back in my youth I had Triumph Herald/Spitfire engines apart and back together again, and there was a small Vauxhall block of around 1200 or 1300 cc in the HB Vivas that I messed about with on a number of occasions, on a car that belonged to a friend and then he passed it on to me. And the BMC B Series in my mother's Morris Oxford. So I've mostly worked on 1960s engines. I'm looking forward to getting inside something a bit more modern. The TD5 design is only about 20 years old, so practically state of the art!

Until I was about 30 I didn't realise you could buy cars new. I thought they all came as a load of rusty bits on a trailer, which had to be wire brushed and painted over a period of months, with additional items sourced from scrapyards and autojumbles, after which you might have something that could be driven for as much as 5000 miles before the engine seized.

You will be right at home with the TD5 it's quite a single engine, but it's a heavy brute more like a pick up truck than a car. But not much to fear.

My rebuilds have been interestng

A 1970s pushrod lump from Rootes
A 1990s/2000s V6 from GM

TD5 main scary thing would be weight.

But I am considering obtaining one with all ECUs to drop into an older LR when I find the right one .

MJI said:

My rebuilds have been interestng

A 1970s pushrod lump from Rootes
A 1990s/2000s V6 from GM

TD5 main scary thing would be weight.

But I am considering obtaining one with all ECUs to drop into an older LR when I find the right one .

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Yes, come to think of it, when I lived in North Wales the first time around one of my housemates had a Hillman Hunter estate for a while so we had a play with the various 1595 and 1725 engine options. You could get scrapyard engines for about £30 in those days so we were able to experiment.

If I was putting a TD5 in an earlier Land Rover I'd try and get as many of the wiring looms out of the donor vehicle as possible, as well as the instruments, so it would keep the ECU happy. There are so may wires in a TD5 that unpicking them and working out which were mission-critical and which were compatible with earlier models and which you could forget about would be quite a task in itself. So the more you could just swap over the better. This guy's managed it so it is clearly not impossible
http://www.web-rover.co.uk/my.html

Brown said:

Yes, come to think of it, when I lived in North Wales the first time around one of my housemates had a Hillman Hunter estate for a while so we had a play with the various 1595 and 1725 engine options. You could get scrapyard engines for about £30 in those days so we were able to experiment.

If I was putting a TD5 in an earlier Land Rover I'd try and get as many of the wiring looms out of the donor vehicle as possible, as well as the instruments, so it would keep the ECU happy. There are so may wires in a TD5 that unpicking them and working out which were mission-critical and which were compatible with earlier models and which you could forget about would be quite a task in itself. So the more you could just swap over the better. This guy's managed it so it is clearly not impossible
http://www.web-rover.co.uk/my.html

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In a 101 would be fun