Starting issue. Chugs and dies?

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bankz5152

bankz5152

Well-Known Member
Posts
9,324
Location
South London/North Kent
Been having a seeminy intermitant starting issue fot the past few weeks.

Started when we where at the foot of the Pryenees on a cold morning. Went to start and the engine "turned over" but was chugging, rough idle and just didnt sound happy. Ran like this for a few seconds then died.

No fault codes, no lights, no smoke. Try again and starts happily as if nothing is wrong, runs perfectly well too.

Doesnt happen often, mostly when the landy is very cold so have been keeping it garaged and it sarts in there zero issues.

Been trying to catch it on video but everytime I go to record it starts fine!

Battery is fine reading a healthy 14.2v on the volt meter
Crank sensor is genuine LR and less than a year old
Injector balances are within the norm
Touch of white smoke on start up occasionally
MAF ideally needs changing (reading 54ish on nano) however reluctant to change as been through 3 in 2 years (all VDO/Siemens)
MAP recently cleaned
AF recently cleaned (pipercross)
EGR blanked
Injector harness gen LR roughly 18 months old

Not checked ECU red plug yet but was cleaned 2 years ago, so probs needs doing!

Can only suspect glow plugs maybe? Not sure what else

Cheers :)
 
Extremely similar to mine except mine hasn't failed to start (yet) havnt been anywhere cold enough I think...

Getting my glowplugs checked with an ammeter saturday morning, if theyre duff ill let you know
 
i think its a td5 3 month virus!
i had it,
smiffy had it
now you got it!

ffs i might be able to go anywhere, but i did not expect to have to wipes its bleedin nose every so often!
 
Mine started doing this about this time last year, spent all winter trying to sort it out, gave up in the end and when it got warmer again it was fine. I suspect I need a new engine loom, I have one but haven't fitted it yet. Mine never died though, just really rough for a 5-10 seconds and was fine after that.
 
tom1979 said:
Mine started doing this about this time last year, spent all winter trying to sort it out, gave up in the end and when it got warmer again it was fine. I suspect I need a new engine loom, I have one but haven't fitted it yet. Mine never died though, just really rough for a 5-10 seconds and was fine after that.
Click to expand...

Complete loom or just injector loom?

If whole loom what makes you think dude?
 
@bankz5152 I went to get plugs checked today to be told he couldn't do em cuz they're individually wired or sumat.

So went to craddocks and had a chat with me man there. Long story short I'm ringing them back Monday when workshop geezers in for a quote to change em cuz I ain't getting involved. I'll let you know if any change but you'll prob do yours yourself before then :p
 
mark em, ask em to keep the old ones.

)sometimes if the snap em they just leave em in and pretend its all done :(:mad:
You can also bench test em wiv a batt and see how pants they were!

Did you change yer glow plug relay at same time, might as well,
 
1988smithy said:
Complete loom or just injector loom?

If whole loom what makes you think dude?
Click to expand...

Complete engine loom (thought I’d replied to this?!) the wiring gets crappy and brittle.

1988smithy said:
@bankz5152 I went to get plugs checked today to be told he couldn't do em cuz they're individually wired or sumat.

So went to craddocks and had a chat with me man there. Long story short I'm ringing them back Monday when workshop geezers in for a quote to change em cuz I ain't getting involved. I'll let you know if any change but you'll prob do yours yourself before then :p
Click to expand...

You can test the resistance of the glow plugs with them fitted.
 
tom1979 said:
Complete engine loom (thought I’d replied to this?!) the wiring gets crappy and brittle.



You can test the resistance of the glow plugs with them fitted.
Click to expand...

Yep did this but couldn't get a reading on any of them. So they're either all goosed or I'm doing it wrong
 
KISSMYAURA said:
mark em, ask em to keep the old ones.

)sometimes if the snap em they just leave em in and pretend its all done :(:mad:
You can also bench test em wiv a batt and see how pants they were!

Did you change yer glow plug relay at same time, might as well,
Click to expand...

Gonna do that first as couldnt get an reading on all four with multimeter, but more likely they're all fooked
 
If you dont get resistance across the glow plug's terminal and head it means it's interrupted, they should have around 0.9 Ohm.... that's how they fail cos the heating element burns out
 
IMO with 4 blown plugs it's normal to start hard when cold so these must be fixed first, some of the Td5s are more sensitive to that than others, depends on the compression, the condition of the injectors, other engine wear, etc and the plugs have a so called "post heat operation" too after the engine was started untill the ECT input reaches 20*C and that can last even 3 minutes, they are very important regardless of some other oppinions
 
sierrafery said:
IMO with 4 blown plugs it's normal to start hard when cold so these must be fixed first, some of the Td5s are more sensitive to that than others, depends on the compression, the condition of the injectors, other engine wear, etc and the plugs have a so called "post heat operation" too after the engine was started untill the ECT input reaches 20*C and that can last even 3 minutes, they are very important regardless of some other oppinions
Click to expand...

Yes I understand their importance even after being told by numerous diesel specialists they're not needed :confused:
Read a few of your historical posts on other forums actually concerning td5 glow plugs
 
1988smithy said:
Yes I understand their importance even after being told by numerous diesel specialists they're not needed :confused:
Click to expand...
Yes, ''diesel specialists" might not be Td5 specialists as well ;) i think the builder of the engine knows the best and that's what's written in the workshop manual:

"The glow plugs are a vital part of the engine starting strategy.

The purpose of the glow plugs is:
l Assist cold engine start.
l Reduce exhaust emissions at low engine load/speed.

The main part of the glow plug is a tubular heating element that protrudes into the combustion chamber of the engine.
The heating element contains a spiral filament that is encased in magnesium oxide powder. At the tip of the tubular
heating element is the heater coil. Behind the heater coil and connected in series is a control coil. The control coil
regulates the heater coil to ensure that it does not overheat and cause a possible failure. The glow plug circuit has its
own control relay located in the engine compartment fuse box.

Pre-heat is the length of time the glow plugs operate prior to engine cranking. The ECM controls the pre-heat time of
the glow plugs based on battery voltage and coolant temperature information via the glow plug relay.

Post-heat is the length of time the glow plugs operate after the engine starts. The ECM controls the post-heat time
based on ECT information. If the ECT fails the ECM will operate pre/ post-heat time strategies with default values
from its memory. The engine will be difficult to start"
 
sierrafery said:
Yes, ''diesel specialists" might not be Td5 specialists as well ;) i think the builder of the engine knows the best and that's what's written in the workshop manual:

"The glow plugs are a vital part of the engine starting strategy.

The purpose of the glow plugs is:
l Assist cold engine start.
l Reduce exhaust emissions at low engine load/speed.

The main part of the glow plug is a tubular heating element that protrudes into the combustion chamber of the engine.
The heating element contains a spiral filament that is encased in magnesium oxide powder. At the tip of the tubular
heating element is the heater coil. Behind the heater coil and connected in series is a control coil. The control coil
regulates the heater coil to ensure that it does not overheat and cause a possible failure. The glow plug circuit has its
own control relay located in the engine compartment fuse box.

Pre-heat is the length of time the glow plugs operate prior to engine cranking. The ECM controls the pre-heat time of
the glow plugs based on battery voltage and coolant temperature information via the glow plug relay.

Post-heat is the length of time the glow plugs operate after the engine starts. The ECM controls the post-heat time
based on ECT information. If the ECT fails the ECM will operate pre/ post-heat time strategies with default values
from its memory. The engine will be difficult to start"
Click to expand...

Mines never failed to start, but only got rough idle for 5secs and bogging down and smoke when trying to blip throttle for 20secs on cold start after doing injector seals.

@bankz5152 given what @sierrafery posted I reckon you're onto a winner with glow plugs lol

How likely is it that all 4 have failed for me @sierrafery ?
 
All were fubar when I did it, only 2/5 actually glowed, both a dull cherry red, and even then only about 2mm of it!
I tested one of the new ones its like a mini light bulb!

Considered delphi / bremi / lucas but went for BERU in the end, only because i read somewhere they are better at the 3 phase application (pre / start / and post start) than others that are just designed for pre or pre+start only)


My understanding is there are two types that will come up on a parts search for a 15P, so be careful, as your garage may not realise etc

One has a cone pitch of 63* the other 90
one fitting depth 25mm* the other 26mm
overall length one is 106/5* the other is 125mm

*this one is correct I recall...

The failure is rated 35Nm, with a tightening torque of just 12-15nm ( thats the plugs spec not LR )


Screenshot is my trade account with ECP........correct one with stubby end

Pic of glow plug on its own is the wrong one, with the tapered tip etc


I now class them as a 25K mIles service item.....
 

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