Speaker noise

Hello To everyone
I hope I might be able to get help with a few issues I am having. I have just purchased and am now proud owner of 2002 p38 Range Rover Westminster diesel. As with all car it has a few issues I'm hoping I can fix. First one is it has 11 speaker harmon kardon radio setup with speaker in centre of front dash and sub in the boot I'm not sure if this is called highlife set up it has a spatial and dap setting on the radio.
My problem is when I put key in ignition from only the centre front speaker and all three in the drivers door I get some kind of interference noise and ticking sound (radio is off) when car running radio turned on all the sound is fine even from centre speaker and the 3 speakers in the front door,but you can hear the clicking ticking interference type noise still there in the background but only on the centre and drivers front door speakers. This is what I have done so far removed all door panels found 3 of the bass speakers shot rubber perished on the cones replaced them
Removed sub located amp checked for water ingress all dry everything looks in good order running out of ideas lol. Also swopped door amp from n/s door to o/s door made no difference. I have noticed not sure if this would cause an issue the n/s door amp has 2 black wires in the loom (earths ?) near the plug which have been cut soldered together then to a single wire to ground. The other black ends in the loom are not connected up
Final issue again not sure if it has any bearing. The front passenger window is not working days reset window message. When I operate switch click comes from door amp. I have tested wires at plug to motor 2 of them power up one at a time when switch operated I guess up and down power.
I assumed Mtr u/s I plugged new Mtr not working.
Could it be earth u/s on motor wiring I don't have wire Colorado information to test further. Finally I wanted to check my transmission oil level but can't find dipstick near bulkhead ?
All help advise greatly appreciated.
I'll update if I get any further with window and speaker fault
I can upload video of the noise if anyone thinks it might help.
Thanks for reading my long winded explanations of my faults.
If I can fix it I will be well made up
Cheers

Hi,
Best to keep postings on the same thread than start another so other folks can hopefully search & reach a conclusion.
Your Westminster shouldn't have door amps but a DSP amp in the boot? Where did you get your replacement speakers from as these are 3ohm (specific to this sound system shared with the '02 Vogue SE)?
The later models don't have a transmission dip stick, LR thought it better to make you crawl under the car & use the filler plug to check level. Check RAVE for procedure but something like : from cold run move gear selector through all gears a couple of times, back to neutral & check level from filler plug. Top up until it runs from filler plug. Obviously support on stands & chock wheels.

Hi Martyn V8 I forgot I had already posted on the matter will try to add to same post in future.
As for my car this is what i have black boxes in the doors picture attached I assume they are door amps just below the tweeter it also has an amp in the boot picture attached behind the subwoofer,and a alpine 6 cd changer.
The replacement speakers I fitted are AMR 6357 fitted perfect and sound great I have one good one left over as I bought four,but only had to replace 3 the rubbers had perished around the speaker cones. But I still have the annoying interference sound I will upload a short video on the original post.

Thanks for your reply will do the oil level check when I sort the other issues out.

Hi,
Those black boxes (AMR 3358) are the door outstations to control the windows, mirrors etc. Looks like some dodgy wiring by PO. Maybe some further wiring bodges to the speakers if you can trace the wires back from the speakers?

The black boxes in the front doors are the door outstations. These communicate over a serial link from the BECM to control the door locking, window, and mirror. The clicking you are hearing is the relay in the oustation which is powering the the window motor.

If you are getting the relay in the outstation click when you press the window switches then the switches, BECM, serial link, and relay coils are all working as they should. You should get +12V/Ground on the Grey/Green and Grey/White wires at the window motor connector when the switch is pressed, and that polarity should reverse when the window switch is pressed for the opposite direction.

If you don't get power, then it is worth checking to make sure you have power on the Purple/Blue and Purple/Black wires coming into the outstation. From memory, Purple/Black is the outstation/mirror/locking power (which sounds like it's OK if the relay is clicking), but if the Purple/Blue doesn't have 12V at it, then it could be that the relay is activating but doesn't have power to feed the motor with.

The fact that someone has been into the wiring already for the grounding of that door outstation, could point to the problem aswell - I would trace that green/yellow earth wire and see where it grounds back to.

The audio system has one single amplifier on your model, which is the Harman/Kardon unit which you have shown a picture of. The signals from the head unit go into there and then it sends amplified audio out to all the doors, and in your case the extra speaker on the dash. It also controls the subwoofer level, though the subwoofer has it's own amplifier in it. Unfortunately the DSP amplifiers are prone to failure and quite expensive to replace - if you can find a working one. Being as you have the extra speaker, the model number is different again - XQK000110 according to my parts catalogue.

It would be worth checking all the common things like power and ground to the DSP amplifier before condemning it, but they do have a tendancy to just fail. If you have factory navigation, then it is also worth just trying unplugging the navigation computer (on RH Side of loadspace) as I have heard of the nav computer (especially if the navigation doesn't work properly) causing issues with the sound system as the DSP amplifier mixes the navigation audio too. Though the normal mode of failure seems to be the navigation system holding the rest of the audio system in a mute state, so you get no audio at all.

Transmission has already been covered, so no need for me to repeat that!

Hope this helps,
Marty

Hi Marty been away for a couple of days so will have a go now at the items you have suggested,great information thanks. where can I get a copy of rave from ?
Also the two black wires which have been cut I have rejoined them in the loom where do these normally go back to to test for continuity back to the BECM under the front Seat. I am thinking if I can re establish that connection even by way of running a new wire that wil bypass any break in the loom.

I will update when I know some more.

Thanks again.

here you go Rave

wammers said:

LINK>. http://www.landroverresource.com/ or
http://www.cannell.co.uk/Manuals_Original.htm

Click to expand...

Both of those black wires are the ground wires for the outstation/door functions.

They go from the outstation, through to the connector in the body of the vehicle, and then run back in the vehicle wiring loom to a ground point on the bodywork, (under the trim) behind the LH rear seat.

The Purple/Blue and Purple/Black wires should have +12V on them permanently (so between both of the black wires and the purple ones, you should read +12V on a multimeter, even with the vehicle off and the key out of the ignition.)

The actual communications to the door back to the BECM is all done over a serial link - and this controls the door lock, mirror, and the window - so if the other functions are working properly, then the serial link/communication to the BECM is ok, and it's an isolated issue with the window

If you can hear the relay clicking in the outstation when you press the switch for that window, then the switchpack and control side is OK, and the issue is either with the window motor, power to it, or possibly the anti-trap feed to the BECM which is separate to the rest of the communications.. However, failure in this shouldn't stop the window from going up or down.

Hi Marty,
Having a play with the car today although things have got worse all sound gone now, when the sat nav voice should come in on the audio I just get the clicking noise when the speech is spoken. so looking like I might need amp as well.
Do you have a pin out for the connector on the dsp Amp in the boot so I check it further.

Also i have seen this and wondered if this might be a solution BMW e46 harmon kardon amp fitted 2001 -2006 http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/BMW-E46-H...740719?hash=item35ff5fe2af:g:ofQAAOSwlfxXFUpC if it could be adapted it would be a cheap option to fix what seems to be a common problem for a lot of people. I am also guessing no repairs the dsp amps anymore ?

I am wondering as it looks identical whether this was a shared component as bmw landrover where one then ? I am going to try and locate a pin out for the bmw amp to see if by swopping over pins it might work,anothe option maybe,has anyone replace the amp with an aftermarket amp,and just rewired the plug that fits into the origal dsp amp ?

update you all later.

Thanks

Simon

I have just found this link for pin out on BMW HK amp http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=15289065
I hope there is someone out there more clever than me can suggest if this might work.

Thanks

Quick update for Marty window now fixed tryed the used motor I bought in the o/s/f working window, motor works.
Checked wiring as per you recommended for no 12v at the door outstation plug ,found no 12v at the purple and blue wire at the door outstation.
Did a continuity test an the wiring through behind the kick panel no continuity. I then stripped of the sill trim to access the loom located the wire in the loom check it for 12volts it was present. I then made a jumper wire from that point into the loom to the outstation and connected it back into the purple and blue wire tested window worked Yahoo !
Tested wiring up to the kick panel had 12v at kick panel so I guess it was the usual broken wire through the door.
So now have put in new piece of wire form the kick panel up into the door and to the oustation all working spot on now.
Very knowledgeable people thanks for the guidance just the stereo to fix now.

Glad the window is all sorted.

I will have a look at the pinout of the BMW amp and see if there is a way of connecting it up to the RR system. I did a pinout of the RR DSP amp some years ago when I bought my P38 and found the DSP amp missing. You can download it from my website if you like the link is here: http://p38webshop.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=71

The DSP amp in the P38 is a bit of a pain as it only uses 2 feeds (Front Left/Right) into it and then the amp itself does the processing for the rear left/right, and all the other audio controls. From what I have found though, the Discovery II version (and possibly the BMW version - I'll know when I've looked at the wiring diagram - use all 4 inputs into the amplifier, and then it is processed from there. It may be possible to add the other inputs into the P38 loom and move some of the pins around to get it to work, but as a standard with the D2 DSP amps, they only drive some of the speakers, not all of them.

I am working on a amp replacement kit to use standard door amps in place of the DSP unit - but if there is an easier way to do it with existing amplifiers, then that would be a lot easier too.

I've just saved the E46 pinouts, so will compare them to the P38 ones at some point when I get a few minutes around work!

martyuk said:

Glad the window is all sorted.

I will have a look at the pinout of the BMW amp and see if there is a way of connecting it up to the RR system. I did a pinout of the RR DSP amp some years ago when I bought my P38 and found the DSP amp missing. You can download it from my website if you like the link is here: http://p38webshop.co.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=71

The DSP amp in the P38 is a bit of a pain as it only uses 2 feeds (Front Left/Right) into it and then the amp itself does the processing for the rear left/right, and all the other audio controls. From what I have found though, the Discovery II version (and possibly the BMW version - I'll know when I've looked at the wiring diagram - use all 4 inputs into the amplifier, and then it is processed from there. It may be possible to add the other inputs into the P38 loom and move some of the pins around to get it to work, but as a standard with the D2 DSP amps, they only drive some of the speakers, not all of them.

I am working on a amp replacement kit to use standard door amps in place of the DSP unit - but if there is an easier way to do it with existing amplifiers, then that would be a lot easier too.

I've just saved the E46 pinouts, so will compare them to the P38 ones at some point when I get a few minutes around work!

Click to expand...

that would be great Marty if it can be done it would be a great fix for all the p38 with poorly amps. I'm happy if if I can get it to work on the front and rear door speakers.
Is it possible to fit say car phone speaker to sat nav if this doesn't work with the amp ?
If so how could it be done. Sorry can't be more help with the wiring I don't understand how to read them 100% but can follow a in out and change over pins following instruvtions
Thumbs up Marty look forward to seeing what you can come up with
Cheers
Son

Hi Marty,
I thought I would post my findings so all can benefit if I get it to work something like.
I have pasted links to the diagrams I am using http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php? p=15289065 and http://p38webshop.co.uk/RRdocs/P38 Premium Stereo Wiring.pdf
[GALLERY=][GALLERY=][/GALLERY][/GALLERY]
Ive uploaded some images of the bmw amp and my xqk000110, and how to dismantle the connector plug to allow removal of the pins.
so how did I get on. Well firstly a catch up for anyone joining this post my original fault was a loud ticking noise when ignition was turned on on coming through centre dash speaker and all speakers in the r/h/f door bass mid and tweeter,although when the radio was turned on the sound was good and everything worked as it should inc sat nav, but there was a ticking noise over the top of the sound from the same speakers as mentioned before but at a lower sound level once engine on and radio on.

When sat nav voice came on the ticking sound got louder and then went quieter when the voice stopped. it was like this for a while then the whole lot stopped working no sound at all, but still the ticking sound when ignition on,turn radio no sound but ticking,and when the voice direction comes on the sat nav the ticking goes louder then quiet when the voice finishes, I also noted that if I pressed mute on the sat nav ticking stops. un mute it comes back.

So from here Ive decided to try to retrofit a bmw HK amp as at £36 its a lot better than £300 £400 pounds If I can get it to work.
With lots of help from Marty this is how I have got on so far,but Im sure it can be done,just im not clever enough to work out the pin changes If anyone is cleverer than me with some ideas on the pins and whether wires need to be joined bridged etc,more than happy to give it a go and report the findings. If it does work i will list the pin changes and what wires need to be spiced joined to make it work.

I plugged it in and hey presto result ticking on ignition not there and sound quality good and loud,also coming through the centre speaker and n/s/f speakers i think from memory some of the r/h/f as well volume levels good as well. So I thought Ok wires need moving around to power the correct speakers. I have attached a link of the bmw pin out ( please use the non colour one the individual images have more details)I have been working with and the landrover one which Marty provided.

Pins 1-5 imo are an exact match to the bmw connector Does everyone agree ?

I then moved some pins see landrover pin out image the new number written next to the pin is where I have moved that pin to match the bmw pin out ie pin 11 land rover moved to pin 42 to match bmw. I hope this makes sense. I did all of them at once which maybe wasnt such a good aidea as now sound is muffled quiet and not as good quality as before.Im going to put back as was and start again.

There appears to be a few anomilys in the pin outs for the bmw and the land rover pin out unless I am missing something.
My system has the following speakers. 3 in each front door bass, mid, and tweeter (running total 6) front centre speaker in dash (running total 7) 3 speakers in the rear doors bass ,mid,tweeter (running total 13) then another 2 either side of the parcel shelf im not sure if these are classed as tweeter,or mid, to small to be bass I think (running total 15) then I have the sub as well. ( 16 in total inc sub)

From what i can tell on Martys pin out he has the following working from the front speakers if any of you can can confirm if you agree or you see something wrong please let me know;-

l/h/f bass output - ve pin 3 bmw pin same pin 3
l/h/f bass output + ve pin 4 bmw pin same pin 4

l/h/f mid / hi output + ve pin 33 so bmw pin 40 mid and 33 tweeter ( make single land rover wire go to both pins 40/33 )
(does this do tweeter and mid range unit ) to supply mid and tweeter ?
or is just the mid range unit,or just tweeter ?

l/h/f mid / hi output - ve pin 34 so bmw pin 41 mid and 34 tweeter ( make single land rover wire go to both pins 40/33 )
(does this do tweeter and mid range unit ) to supply mid and tweeter ?
or is this just the mid range unit,or just tweeter ?



I cant see L/h/f tweeter or centre dash speaker listed on the land rover pin out.Any ideas or will the centre speaker work when the fronts are working ?



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r/h/f bass output - ve pin 24 bmw pin 22
r/h/f bass output + ve pin 25 bmw pin 23

r/h/f mid / hi output + ve pin 11 so bmw pin 42 mid and 11 tweeter ( make single land rover wire go to both pins 42/11 ?)
does this do tweeter and mid range unit or just tweeter ?

r/h/f mid / hi output - ve pin 12 so bmw pin 41 mid and 34 tweeter ( make single land rover wire go to both pins 41/34 ?)
does this do tweeter and mid range unit or just tweeter ?

I cant see r/h/f tweeter on the land rover pin out any ideas or is it as above ?


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l/h/r bass output - ve pin 1 bmw pin same pin 1
l/h/r bass output + ve pin 2 bmw pin same pin 2

l/h/r mid /output ( dosnt say mid / hi ?) + ve pin 31 so bmw has no mid rear speakers pin (splice with other wires front left hand mid + ve?)
does this do tweeter and mid range unit or just tweeter or mid range ?

l/h/r mid / output ( dosnt say mid /Hi ? ) - ve pin 32 so bmw has no mid rear speaker pin (splice with other wires front left hand mid -ve?)
does this do tweeter and mid range unit or just tweeter or mid range ?




no listing for l/h/r tweeter -ve on landrover pin out bmw rear left - ve pin 32 wire up how or leave disconnected ?
no listing for l/h/r tweeter +ve on landrover pin out bmw rear left +ve pin 31 wire up how or leave disconnected ?

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r/h/r bass output - ve pin 22 bmw pin 24
r/h/r bass output + ve pin 23 bmw pin 25

r/h/r mid /output ( dosnt say mid / hi ?) + ve pin 13 so bmw has no mid rear mid speakers pin (splice with other wires which ?)
does this do tweeter and mid range unit ,or just tweeter or mid ?

l/h/r mid / output ( dosnt say mid /Hi ? ) - ve pin 32 so bmw has no mid rear mid speakers pin (splice with other wires which ?)
does this do tweeter and mid range unit,or just tweeter or mid ?

no listing for l/h/r tweeter -ve on landrover pin out bmw rear left tweeter- ve pin 32 wire up how or leave disconnected ?
no listing for l/h/r tweeter +ve on landrover pin out bmw rear left tweeter +ve pin 31 wire up how or leave disconnected ?
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no listing on landrover pin out for speakers either side of parcel shelf (are these tweeter or mids ?)
leave disconnected or wire with rear tweeters bmw pin (right side rear pin 21,13) (rear left 32,31) ?
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Sub woofer output + ve pin 6 bmw pin 6 not used
Sub woofer output - ve pin 14 bmw pin 14 not used

the bmw has four pins for the sub woofer as the landrover has 2

bmw pin 6 positive activation subwoofer
bmw pin 7 signal subwoofer switched
bmw pin 14 negative activation subwoofer
bmw pin 19 speedometer (a) output signal subwoofer box

how should I wire it, can I wire it in ?



Right at the end of this post now I have noticed that Marty pointed out that the head unit only has 2 radio outputs where as the bmw has four,so i am going to bridge pins 9 r/h/f input + ve radio to pin 8,and bridge pin 17 r/h/f input - ve radio to pin 16,this i hope should give me the four output wires the bmw amp needs to give me 4 speaker channels (both front and rear doors).

I have also notice that the non coloured wiring images for the bmw amp has more info, it has a spatial sound signal wire on pin 15. I am going to connect the the wire from pin 27 from the landrover pin out the pink and white dsp wire and see what happens.
Finally any thoughts looking at the pin outs if it might be possible to get sat nav voice connected or wire up a seperate speaker using pin 18,19 from the landrover pin out navigation input - and + ve i assume these are the sound wires ,will that provide sound to say a carphone speaker,or to a pin on the the bmw amp that might work ?

Well thats enough for one day lol going to go and have a play check in later with update and to see if I have any replies.

thanks

Hi Simon,

I'm at work at the moment, but will look into it when I get back later.

Your system is a bit more complex again as you have the extra speakers. The normal DSP systems have the bass, middle and tweeter in front doors, and just bass and mid in the rear doors, and a sub with a separate amp.

I'll look into the best way to add your extra speakers and let you know my thoughts a bit later.

Marty

Hi Simon,

I ended up having a long day at work, so will look at this properly in the morning! However, yes, the sat nav will work on a normal 8ohm speaker. It was one thing I found out when I was looking into my nav system when I first got it, and worked out that the sat nav computer has an 8 ohm, 1watt amplifier built into it, so you can run a small speaker (like handsfree kit type) directly from the nav computer.

As for the rest - I'll see what I can come up with...

Marty

Right,

Had a bit of a look during the show tonight as I had some time, and have drawn up the attached pdf as a cross-reference between my original P38 wiring and the BMW E46 wiring.

This should at least get audio into the unit on the 4 proper channels, and then back out again to the correct locations. Whether the DSP spatial control line will work properly or not is a bit of a guess, but you would like to think that it will all behave nicely!

http://80.229.144.252/marty/docs/P38 - BMW E46 DSP Amp Connections V1.pdf

If the front mid/high doesn't work properly from the BMW amp's outputs, then it is worth trying them in the last 4 pins as they might match up them..
I'm not 100% sure what you can do about the rear parcel shelf and the center console speakers, as they are additional in the model p38 that you have, most of the P38 models only have bass/mid in the rear doors, and bass/mid/normal in the front doors, so could be interesting trying to get them to connect up.

Also not 100% sure on the subwoofer - you should be able to connect the Orange/Orange Black wires on the input/output of the DSP amp to send the signal straight to the amplifier rathern than through the new amp, as I'm not sure on how they do the processing on the BMW version.

Hope this helps you get a bit further along though!
Cheers,
Marty

Sometimes I am very grateful I have the bog-standard model. Does mean the disc jumps a bit on the grammar phone when going over bumps and of course it does need winding up.

Hi Marty thanks for the info, been tinkering today only just seen it now.

My pins didnt arrive yet for the plug,so i havnt been able to make 2 wires into 4 from the head unit. once i have I will crimp a terminal on each wire and put them in the plug in the pin location.
Up to now so far so good. after a bit more fiddling I now have all front bass mid and tweeters working and centre dash speaker.My guess is the centre dash speaker is wired in the loom to the existing front speaker loom.
The steering controls work volume and seek.
On the head unit balance, treble and bass all work as they should.

So for now well happy sounds good as it is. and for a £35 fix bargain.

I have noted fyi that on my rear door speakers the mid and tweeter are on the same wire loom, so my guess is that if i put the wire from the range rover loom mid, to the bmw tweeter pins( as bmw has no mid rear speakers pin only rear tweeter) then that should get the mid and tweeter working on the rear doors.
I also suspect the small speakers either side of the parcel shelf may work as well,as they also may be wired in the loom.
I will update again when I have done the above.

This will just the sub to check out,and the sat nav voice,is there any way to utilize the phone input output lines for the sat nav voice or the phone mute line,or the little seperate 3 wire phone loom I have at the rear on its own plug,it would keep it tidy if this can be done as opposed to a carphone speaker at the front for the nav voice.
Is there anything required for the cd player to work head says no disc,so maybe it sees the cd changer player but not loading the discs,night be the changer.

Cheers