Smoking under load.

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Epicuser

Epicuser

Ex Freelander Owner
Posts
2,393
Location
North East Surrey
I can't find anything relevant when searching so here goes.

I have noticed a few interesting things happening with my TD4 auto recently.

First off it is VERY slow when cold. I have the smell of diesel plus the rough running and smoking for about 10 seconds etc. then it seems a little smoother.

I have the Ronbox fitted with all the usual mods. It was turned on at setting 10, but the 3 way cabin switch is on the centre Eco 2 setting.

When going up hill yesterday, it was very sluggish and was smoking badly all the way up a 1 in 4 near home. It was making a loud tapping sound when under load. I thought it might be getting low on oil, but the level hasn't changed in 4,000 miles. So it is not using oil and the oil is messy black. It was last serviced 3,000 miles ago. For its 108,000 mike service at 114,000 miles.

The engine never gets hotter than 70c as the thermostat is duff and is being replaced next week.

The car seems better when the Ronbox fuel switch is off and the air switch is on for the Pierberg MAF.

I have a Scangauge 2 plugged in and it is not reporting any faults, but it is very basic on that front. What it is telling me is the oxygen sensor is open all the time. I think it should be closed according to the manual for the Scangauge.

Sometimes it tells me that boost is 14,7psi when the engine is idling, other times it tells be it is 0psi when idling.

Any ideas as to what the problem is?
 
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What it is telling me is the oxygen sensor is open all the time
Click to expand...

td4 doesn't have an 'oxygen sensor' .. afaik
that might be a reference to the lambada sensors on petrol vehicles

Sometimes it tells me that boost is 14,7psi when the engine is idling, other times it tells be it is 0psi when idling.
Click to expand...

at sea level the 14.7 psi at idle is correct ..
so the 0psi reading could mean there's a fault with the Map sensor ..
( intake Manifold Absolute Pressure )
maybe the sensor plug could do with a clean ..
( or the sensor is faulty internally .. it's mainly a diaphram that's subject to all the oily gunge
( that builds up inside the intake manifold ..

i.e. 14.7 psi means there is no added pressure being generated by the turbo
0psi would suggest a near-to-vacuum state..

Unless .. you've been changing the way the scangauge reports the map psi
i think it can report Map / or Boost
( i've only used Map .. no idea what the other setting would read )

i've never seen an 0psi reading on mine ..

with my scangauge set to 'MAP' and 'psi'
i get 14.7 at idle ( sea level )
about 17 or 18 psi cruising at 60mph aprox. on the flat
and the max. i've seen is 28psi .. uphill in 4th gear about 3.5k rpm aprox.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

black smoke is too much fuel to air ratio

i don't know what happens if the ECU sees a low .. or no reading from the Map sensor
e.g. would it increase the fuel in an effort to increase the turbo boost

( too much Map psi results in the ecu cutting engine power by reducing the fuel injected ..
( as in the case of the variable turbo vanes becoming stuck in the wrong position

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When going up hill yesterday, it was very sluggish and was smoking badly all the way up a 1 in 4 near home. It was making a loud tapping sound when under load.
Click to expand...

was assuming it were black smoke btw. on re-read didn't note any colour mentioned ..
loud tapping under load sounds ominous .. if it's mechanical ..
i.e. not extra loud 'diesel-knock' which might suggest lack of turbo boost .. or fuel injection problems
 
Last edited:
btw: when you posted this vid
Freelander TD4 no power | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

listening to the sound had me thinking there was lack of turbo boost on the engine
as if there's too much 'diesel-knock' sound from the engine ..
sounds more like a naturaly-aspirated diesel to me
or a land-rover tdi engine at idle ..

didn't know what to think actually .. because of the variety of sound recording devices and the recording quality
( i've tried .. iPhone .. a dash cam .. and a canon vid camera .. for sound
( all came out different as far as engine noise sounds ..
( and also depended on the device's position in the cab
( was going to strap the iphone inside the engine bay .. to see what that sounded like
( but .. had second thoughts about that :)

i've only ever driven mine .. and with more go-pedal it gets quieter
( i.e. apart from exhaust noise )
be as if the engine combustion sound .. diesel-knock .. quietens with the onset
of turbo boost ..

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

you write that it runs better with the ronbox turned 'off' (power switch)
that also suggests 'overfueling' ( in relation to air being pumped in )

probably best to keep the ronbox 'power' turned 'off' untill you find out what the problem is
 
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Might be wrong but sounds like injectors at fault, but it's an expensive job if it's not that. Mine responded a lot better when the Ronbox was turned right down for fuelling. On full power it smoked like the Titanic. Day before I ripped them out, they smoked so bad and run so damned lumpy that it was embarrassing. White/grey smoke though, but smelled of diesel.
 
hd3 said:
you write that it runs better with the ronbox turned 'off' (power switch)
that also suggests 'overfueling' ( in relation to air being pumped in )

probably best to keep the ronbox 'power' turned 'off' untill you find out what the problem is
Click to expand...

That is what I am doing.

It is going to be looked at this week by a Land Rover specialist.
 
Spacemonkey... said:
Might be wrong but sounds like injectors at fault, but it's an expensive job if it's not that. Mine responded a lot better when the Ronbox was turned right down for fuelling. On full power it smoked like the Titanic. Day before I ripped them out, they smoked so bad and run so damned lumpy that it was embarrassing. White/grey smoke though, but smelled of diesel.
Click to expand...

It does sound a bit like that.... mmmmm

The Ronbox maybe on 10, but because the switch is on Eco, it is not really anywhere near 10.
 
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I had almost identical symptoms when my crank case breather filter was choked, but ive a feeling you may have tbe modified bmw joby. Altho I suppose its not impossible for those to suffer faults.
 
musky81 said:
I had almost identical symptoms when my crank case breather filter was choked, but ive a feeling you may have tbe modified bmw joby. Altho I suppose its not impossible for those to suffer faults.
Click to expand...

I do indeed have the cyclone one fitted. Doesn't seem to be any pressure in the crankcase -I checked the oil today and it was quite hard to pull out the dipstick.
 
hd3 said:
td4 doesn't have an 'oxygen sensor' .. afaik
that might be a reference to the lambada sensors on petrol vehicles



at sea level the 14.7 psi at idle is correct ..
so the 0psi reading could mean there's a fault with the Map sensor ..
( intake Manifold Absolute Pressure )
maybe the sensor plug could do with a clean ..
( or the sensor is faulty internally .. it's mainly a diaphram that's subject to all the oily gunge
( that builds up inside the intake manifold ..

i.e. 14.7 psi means there is no added pressure being generated by the turbo
0psi would suggest a near-to-vacuum state..

Unless .. you've been changing the way the scangauge reports the map psi
i think it can report Map / or Boost
( i've only used Map .. no idea what the other setting would read )

i've never seen an 0psi reading on mine ..

with my scangauge set to 'MAP' and 'psi'
i get 14.7 at idle ( sea level )
about 17 or 18 psi cruising at 60mph aprox. on the flat
and the max. i've seen is 28psi .. uphill in 4th gear about 3.5k rpm aprox.i

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

black smoke is too much fuel to air ratio

i don't know what happens if the ECU sees a low .. or no reading from the Map sensor
e.g. would it increase the fuel in an effort to increase the turbo boost

( too much Map psi results in the ecu cutting engine power by reducing the fuel injected ..
( as in the case of the variable turbo vanes becoming stuck in the wrong position

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



was assuming it were black smoke btw. on re-read didn't note any colour mentioned ..
loud tapping under load sounds ominous .. if it's mechanical ..
i.e. not extra loud 'diesel-knock' which might suggest lack of turbo boost .. or fuel injection problems
Click to expand...

I have it set up as boost ie BST in advanced setup and in psi.

The max I have seen is about 30psi when it is 14.7psi at idle, but about 11 when it is showing 0psi at idle.


I'll try MAP setting when I next use the car.

I'll look at the Haynes manual for the MAP. If I can get to the bottom of this before the car goes to be looked at, it will save me a few ££££'s.

It's going in anyway to have the lift kit fitted.

It was hard to say what colour the smoke was, but I think it was black-it reminded me of when the turbo hose went a few months ago. The oil level is the same as it was after it was serviced.
 
Last edited:
Epicuser said:
I do indeed have the cyclone one fitted. Doesn't seem to be any pressure in the crankcase -I checked the oil today and it was quite hard to pull out the dipstick.
Click to expand...

It is on mine too. I'm not sure that's a problem though to be honest.

Our cars are roughly the same age. Fortunately for me mine is running just fine and, with the exception of the RR box, I've carried out the same mods as you as far as I can tell. The only real problem I've experienced is the failure of the LP fuel pump and/or the MAF sensor (I changed both at the same time so I don't know for sure which was causing the problem).

Personally I'd take the car back to as close to standard as possible and fix the faults from there - only applying performance mods as and when the car is operating correctly in the first place.

Just my 2p worth.
 
sijwhite said:
It is on mine too. I'm not sure that's a problem though to be honest.

Our cars are roughly the same age. Fortunately for me mine is running just fine and, with the exception of the RR box, I've carried out the same mods as you as far as I can tell. The only real problem I've experienced is the failure of the LP fuel pump and/or the MAF sensor (I changed both at the same time so I don't know for sure which was causing the problem).

Personally I'd take the car back to as close to standard as possible and fix the faults from there - only applying performance mods as and when the car is operating correctly in the first place.

Just my 2p worth.
Click to expand...

Thanks.

I have the Pierberg MAF with the Ronbox correcting the signal.

I have wondered about the fuel pump under the wheel arch, but that would generally cause fuel starvation, rather than over fuelling, which is what the black smoke implies.
 
I can't find any reference to the MAP sensor on the TD4, only for petrol engines, in the Haynes manual.
Click to expand...

4B.9
lower right of page
haynes call it the 'boost pressure sensor'
 
It's in one of the lower corners of the manifold (front of car) IIRC it's the 'belts' end..?Mine was clogged full of black crap. I degreased it and cleaned it out and 'seems' fine.
 
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