Series 3 fuel priming issues

Hi ,

So i have a series 2, 109, with a series 3 5 bearing , 2.25 diesel engine in.

It seriously died last year, (main bearings went, timing chain slipped, and smashed valves into pistons, injector died, radiator blew up, etc etc, )

so the engine came out and was totally rebuilt, re sleeved, bored, ground, new crank, rods , pistons, etc etc , the lot,

Its now back in the vehicle and i had some initial problems with the electrical grounding , that is now sorted so it turns over, but wont fire. So i re primed the injector, and still nothing.

I have primed the pump, and its fine, there is fuel in the tank, I have lossen the 2 bolts on the injector, and im getting flow out of one but not both. the one on the control box, pushes fuel out no problem, but the one on the main round body just wont leak fuel, and as such the fuel is obviously getting no further.

I have been pumping for age, trying to get it trough, but get nothing but cramp!

Any ideas?

jamieelliott said:

Hi ,

So i have a series 2, 109, with a series 3 5 bearing , 2.25 diesel engine in.

It seriously died last year, (main bearings went, timing chain slipped, and smashed valves into pistons, injector died, radiator blew up, etc etc, )

so the engine came out and was totally rebuilt, re sleeved, bored, ground, new crank, rods , pistons, etc etc , the lot,

Its now back in the vehicle and i had some initial problems with the electrical grounding , that is now sorted so it turns over, but wont fire. So i re primed the injector, and still nothing.

I have primed the pump, and its fine, there is fuel in the tank, I have lossen the 2 bolts on the injector, and im getting flow out of one but not both. the one on the control box, pushes fuel out no problem, but the one on the main round body just wont leak fuel, and as such the fuel is obviously getting no further.

I have been pumping for age, trying to get it trough, but get nothing but cramp!

Any ideas?

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Injector pump Rebuild !

It is a new one, well a rebuilt one that i bought, after the original totally died.
I cant imagine that having only gone a few mile and then nothing for a year, that is bad enough for a rebuild?

jamieelliott said:

It is a new one, well a rebuilt one that i bought, after the original totally died.
I cant imagine that having only gone a few mile and then nothing for a year, that is bad enough for a rebuild?

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your sure the lift pump arm is on the cam ?

jamieelliott said:

Hi ,

So i have a series 2, 109, with a series 3 5 bearing , 2.25 diesel engine in.

It seriously died last year, (main bearings went, timing chain slipped, and smashed valves into pistons, injector died, radiator blew up, etc etc, )

so the engine came out and was totally rebuilt, re sleeved, bored, ground, new crank, rods , pistons, etc etc , the lot,

Its now back in the vehicle and i had some initial problems with the electrical grounding , that is now sorted so it turns over, but wont fire. So i re primed the injector, and still nothing.

I have primed the pump, and its fine, there is fuel in the tank, I have lossen the 2 bolts on the injector, and im getting flow out of one but not both. the one on the control box, pushes fuel out no problem, but the one on the main round body just wont leak fuel, and as such the fuel is obviously getting no further.

I have been pumping for age, trying to get it trough, but get nothing but cramp!

Any ideas?

Click to expand...

Probably just not taken your time, it is a bit of an art. First bleed the filter,open screw on the filter head, put a bucket under the vehicle. Pump the primer for a bit. Leave for air bubbles to rise, tap the filter a few times with a screwdriver, Then repeat. When you are sure there are no airbubbles, tighten the screw.

Then move onto the screws on the pump body, similar, take your time, let air rise, pump again, then tighten the screws with clear fuel running. If the system has been disturbed so there is a lot of air, I would expect to have 2-5 litres of fuel in the bucket by this stage.

Finally, loosen two high pressure lines at the sprayer unions. Get an assistant to crank the engine over, when you see a steady drip of fuel for the union, tighten the fittings, it should start up.

I know the pump is working manually, and i would have thought it was on the cam. Is there a way to test that besides running and looking for pump action?

Secondly i have pumped a while, but maybe not 2.5ltr of dribble in the bucket before the air bubbles stop, the thing is im not seeing anything out of the second air screw, the one on the main body, but your suggestion it just takes ages to refill the internals of the injector?

jamieelliott said:

I know the pump is working manually, and i would have thought it was on the cam. Is there a way to test that besides running and looking for pump action?

Secondly i have pumped a while, but maybe not 2.5ltr of dribble in the bucket before the air bubbles stop, the thing is im not seeing anything out of the second air screw, the one on the main body, but your suggestion it just takes ages to refill the internals of the injector?

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Are yu sure you are undoing a second bleed screw, not something else?
While since I have seen a 2 1/4 pump, but some may only have one screw.
And are you doing up the first screw before pumping again?
Pics of what you are doing would be useful.

It will take a little while to fill up the pump, but a bit longer for all the air to rise up out of the pump internals.

Lift pump try removing the outlet union and give it a good pump?
If it looks really old and tired, might be worth just replacing it, a quality replacement isn't a lot of money,and should give decades of good service.

I meant up to five litres of fuel, not 2.5 litres exackly! Its a dash, not a decimal point!

definite about which screws im doing. i also have the CAV instruction book and haynes manual for ref.

As its just me doing it, i have both screws undone, then pump and when diesel is coming from the first screw, i close that , then wait for it to appear from the second whilst still pumping, and nothing. The pump has resistance as if it defiantly has fluid in .

the pump is working well on the hand lever, i removed the out union and if really fires out diesel.

the diesel comes out the oump body screw really well, with force, but just not on the control cover, (ref haynes manual photo of which is which. )

so in ref to the 2-5 ltr, are you expecting to have to pump by hand for ages untill you have a bucket of diesel that has come from the air screw, before your free of air? As if this is the case, then im not even getting 500ml, so i guess i just have to work the pump for 10 min straight?

jamieelliott said:

so in ref to the 2-5 ltr, are you expecting to have to pump by hand for ages untill you have a bucket of diesel that has come from the air screw, before your free of air? As if this is the case, then im not even getting 500ml, so i guess i just have to work the pump for 10 min straight?

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Not necessarily, some systems bleed in a few pumps, some are very slow and tricky. And it depends how much air you have in there. If it is all new pipes, pumps etc. I would expect a lot of air.
You don't have to pump the lift pump continuously, a few pumps and the pressure will push it through for a while while you watch the fuel flow from the hole.

Pics are good, and well done, you have identified the screws correctly, some don't. Try closing the screws in the other order, check your stop control is open, and try the cranking with injector end of pipes cracked open. You will need an assistant to turn the key.

Try not to leave the injector pipes off like that, surefire way to contaminate your fuel.

I see you are disconnecting the pump end of the injector pipes. I wouldn't do this. I would slightly loosen the injector end of number one ( only ), and then, having bled the pump as best you can, turn the engine over with the starter - it might pick up, it might not - but it should, in short order, pump fizzy diesel out of the loose union. Normal precautions apply about keeping away from high pressure diesel - it's pretty dangerous.....

If you get nowhere with #1, then try #4..... repeat until she fires up. Good luck with it - I know these pumps can be a complete pain to bleed on occasion.

@jamieelliott - how are you getting on ? is she running yet....

Or, does this ...

Turboman said:

some are very slow and tricky

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still apply ??

Turboman said:

You will need an assistant to turn the key

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If it's still being a pain, then it might be worth making a wander lead up - croc clip to SPST switch to spade connector - and use this to energise the starter solenoid and spin it over.... ( be careful of fans and belts and loose injector unions tho!! ) Also be aware that you might have to retreat to the cab to stop the engine, when it does start - you might be able to move the stop lever in the engine bay despite the cable, or not - I have seen both.

Right , so I'm back at it . Pumping the hand prime to get the air out , I thought I'd also show the filter system in this vehicle that was put in before I bought is and I have never questioned it . It is a separate halfords fuel filter that has 2 pipes in the top . I have added a picture . The central pipe is connected to the out on top of the injector pump and the outer pipe is connected to the spill pipe at the end of the line of injectors .

The filter was drained but then turned over and filled with diesel when I put it back .

Also when I turn it over for 5-10 sec the battery terminals are getting hot and the ground (-) is smoking .

Any further ideas ??

Cheers

Can't see the picture of the fuel filter arrangement (!).

jamieelliott said:

The filter was drained but then turned over and filled with diesel when I put it back

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Not sure I follow that - perhaps the picture will help - did you fit a new element - they are not expensive.

jamieelliott said:

Also when I turn it over for 5-10 sec the battery terminals are getting hot and the ground (-) is smoking .

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You've probably got some corrosion on the earth points - either the terminal end, or the chassis end, or both - worth checking them all, and re-making them as required - "no smoke without fire", and fire in a vehicle rarely ends well. Pictures might help us see the problem here too - probably verdigris simply from age - and usually easily removed.

the filter is sealed so no new element.

as it was empty , i opened its drain valve and filled it up with diesel to get rid of most of the air from with in.

the chassis ground has just been re done, as that was my original problem when fitting the engine back in, there wasn't a good ground so i was getting no turn over.

i have re posted the picture of the filter hose set up for ref. as far as i can tell from the CAV manual this is totally wrong, but im just putting it back how it was when i took it out!! ,
i have now switched the filter set up from as above, to
- line from pump goes to outside hose on filter, inside hose goes to top union on injector pump.

this seams to work better with the priming, but still not starting. also , the hose that runs out the bottom union on the pump now has no where to go.

?? Ill add more photos .

this is how i had it set up yesterday.

That fuel filter is the wrong one - it should look like this:-

which would give you another union to connect your "stray" pipe too, if I am understanding you correctly, and would also enable you to replace the element (RTC6079) at the correct intervals - I'm guessing that the current filter might be part of the problem.... but i wouldn't suggest running without one.

I borrowed the pic off flea bay , £24, delivered - item number 131328455681 - I've been looking at your pics for a while too - and I can't see where the spills are connected - having just checked on two tractors with the same pump - they return to the filter - which is not possible in your case - and it looks like they might be connected to the output of the lift pump, which, IIRC won't work either.

have you got any relevant pictures from before the engine rebuild ?

Agree entirely^^^^^^^^^^^^^^, that isn't the right fuel filter set up for that fuel system, and it would be best to go back to the standard system ASAP.
Should be cheap and easy, all the pipes and filter heads are available, and inexpensive, Delphi filter head unit might be thirty quid, and the elements are s few quid each.
The previous owner may not have been good with fool systems, but they were very good at polishing rocker boxes!

Turboman said:

Delphi filter head unit might be thirty quid

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£24 delivered, inc the element = bargain !!